England - New Zealand ODI

[Milky]

Brett Lee.

And who are we going to be playing?

Think about it.

ooohhh, well that's completely different isn' it

[Lord Nibblington]

ooohhh, well that's completely different isn' it

Yup, Coz Vaughan's been amazing in all the games he's played.

And that Ricky Pointing fella? Load of rubbish him.

Clearly not going to make one tiny difference. You're dead right.

[Geo V]

2 wins in a row counts as a roll for England, right? Still, that's probably our quota of wins for the year out.

Disappointing to see both Loye and Bopara dumped, though. Especially Bopara who's not really had a chance after inexplicably being put in at 8 last match.

I think the stat I heard whilst watching the cricket was that before today, England had only won two ODIs in a row twice in the last 45 games! With those stats we are now flying!

Im not saying that our side is the finished article but the Aussies arent as good as we have made them look this summer. We have beaten them in one ODI and NZ had them reeling a couple of times. It wasnt long ago that we were beating the pants off them in the Ashes either. They didnt seem to handle pressure too well the last time England beat the Aussies and I am really hoping that England get amongst them and see how they really cope with pressure against aside they havent got mentally!

We can do it!

[Flynny]

I do think the Australian ODI side isn't as superior to our own as the Test side is. We stand a chance. Even if Vaughan hardly scores he's extremely valuable to us as a captain. At the moment we need to be looking at our pacemen and possibly looking at replacing Strauss/Bell/Joyce with bigger hitters - I'd drop-kick Bell out of the ODI side, personally. Too many similar players.

[Geo V]

I do think the Australian ODI side isn't as superior to our own as the Test side is. We stand a chance. Even if Vaughan hardly scores he's extremely valuable to us as a captain. At the moment we need to be looking at our pacemen and possibly looking at replacing Strauss/Bell/Both with bigger hitters - I'd drop-kick Bell out of the ODI side, personally. Too many similar players.

I agree with us having too many similar players but we also have had too many players out of form. The selectors will now have problems in selection because Joyce has made the opening slot his own and Collingwood, Bell and Strauss have been in the runs over the last few games and KP is to come back and he has to play, as does the skipper Vaughan. At least they now have options in the batting department now. One thing though, why doesnt Dalrymple bowl??! He is meant to be an all rounder that bats at 7 but he hardly bowls!

[Flynny]

I agree with us having too many similar players but we also have had too many players out of form. The selectors will now have problems in selection because Joyce has made the opening slot his own and Collingwood, Bell and Strauss have been in the runs over the last few games and KP is to come back and he has to play, as does the skipper Vaughan. At least they now have options in the batting department now. One thing though, why doesnt Dalrymple bowl??! He is meant to be an all rounder that bats at 7 but he hardly bowls!

I think he's been out of form with the ball lately, or something like that. He's very useful at picking up speedy runs at the bottom of the order, though, as so long as he gets bowling again he's good where he is.

Uhh, just out of interest, assuming we had everyone fit (Anderson, KP, etc.) who would you play at the World Cup if it was tomorrow?

[Samu]

Bit premature but based on this series what would everyone's World Cup team be? Considering it's only a month away, making drastic changes is probably not gonna happen. I would quite like to see this team (assuming Trescothick doesn't play):

Loye

Vaughan

Bell

Pietersen

Collingwood

Flintoff

Dalrymple (not the greatest bowler but useful down the order and can't see another alternative really)

Nixon

Broad/Gough

Anderson

Panesar

There's many positions to be debated. I reckon the only certainties are Flintoff and KP and possible Collingwood (just because he's a damn good fielder and useful 6th bowler). Not quite sure about Anderson but he was brilliant a couple of matches ago and when he gets the ball to swing he's dangerous. Plunkett has looked ok the last few games, simply because he does produce wicket taking deliveries. But on the other hand he is very erratic. Not a big fan of John Lewis although I reckon he will play ahead of Gough and Broad (but let's face it, he's hardly gonna win us the World Cup). Mahmood is a definite no. Panesar is not quite there in one day cricket but he's learning quickly. I like Nixon in the team, although his batting is not of international standard, simply because he adds the experience, enthusiasm and support to the team which Read and Jones failed to do.

Batting wise I would probably have Strauss ahead of Vaughan but in all honestly both are horribly out of touch. Having Mal Loye in is a risk for the World Cup however he does offer that something at the top of the order which the others fail to do. Anyway what does everyone else reckon?

[Flynny]

I disagree with a fair bit of that. Having Gough back would be a step in the wrong direction and sticking Broad in with no preparation just before a World Cup is suicide, however good the guy is.

I'd go with

Joyce

Loye

Vaughan

Pietersen

Colly

Bopara

Flintoff

Dalrymple

Nixon

Panesar/Lewis (Depends on Pitch)

Anderson

Could appear slightly light on bowling, but it isn't when Colly, Bopara, Flintoff, Dalrymple, Pietersen, Lewis or Panesar and Anderson can all bowl.

[Samu]

It's not really about taking a step in the wrong direction though, because let's face it Gough was still one of the best one day bowlers in the country this season and his bowling at the end of the innings is sensational. This isn't a one day team which we are right now building for the future, we will start re-building the team after the World Cup (which is where we will assess how strong we are compared to other nations). I think you need a mixture of players with experience and youth. Saying putting Broad in is suicidal is silly really when you have Bopara in seeing as Bopara has played 1 ODI and Broad has played 5 or so. Broad will have been playing cricket for the Academy over the winter. Bopara had one half decent match and you have so many better alternatives at the moment. I'm sure Bopara will be a great player in the future but if you are saying now is too soon for Broad, it is for Bopara too. Also they brought Anderson back in having played little or no cricket for 18 months or so...whereas Broad has had a full and incredibly successful season under his belt. It is a difficult selection process though, because if you take risks with inexperienced players and they don't come off, people will slate you. But similarly if you bring old heads back in and they under perform you will also get slated.

[Samu]

Also I don't think it's at all possible to go into with two out and out bowlers, plus Flintoff. I'm positive England will not do this. Relying on overs from KP and Bopara as a 5th bowler is incredibly risky, after all this is international cricket and the likes of Ponting, Jayasuriya will get after them. England will definitely not change their policy of having 3 straight bowlers after the keeper. I do agree it's a waste some of the time when people like Mahmood are batting at 9 and barely used but I do believe that you need extra bowlers from your suggestion. Going back to the idea of having Broad in the team, he also adds the fact that he can bat. Always nice to have someone down the order who can bat.

[Flynny]

It's not really about taking a step in the wrong direction though, because let's face it Gough was still one of the best one day bowlers in the country this season and his bowling at the end of the innings is sensational. This isn't a one day team which we are right now building for the future, we will start re-building the team after the World Cup (which is where we will assess how strong we are compared to other nations). I think you need a mixture of players with experience and youth. Saying putting Broad in is suicidal is silly really when you have Bopara in seeing as Bopara has played 1 ODI and Broad has played 5 or so. Broad will have been playing cricket for the Academy over the winter. Bopara had one half decent match and you have so many better alternatives at the moment. I'm sure Bopara will be a great player in the future but if you are saying now is too soon for Broad, it is for Bopara too. Also they brought Anderson back in having played little or no cricket for 18 months or so...whereas Broad has had a full and incredibly successful season under his belt. It is a difficult selection process though, because if you take risks with inexperienced players and they don't come off, people will slate you. But similarly if you bring old heads back in and they under perform you will also get slated.

I realised that not long after I posted.

I actually meant to put Strauss at 5 and Colly at 6. You're right, I wouldn't play Bopara or Broad at the world cup.

[lcfc_jme]

Hmm change in fortunes - we've finally got a bright spot on the tour. We're in the final. Great stuff!

Though it doesn't cover up all of the failings on this tour, in all departments of the game. We need to do a LOT of work before the World Cup or we'll be embarrassed over there as well.

We'll probably get bashed around in the final and lose 2-0 anyway.

[Manwell Pablo]

what, ponting? no symonds this time. who else?

Damn good player who will make a hell of a lot of differnce.

[Milky]

Damn good player who will make a hell of a lot of differnce.

It won't be "completely different teams" though will it.

[Samu]

I realised that not long after I posted.

I actually meant to put Strauss at 5 and Colly at 6. You're right, I wouldn't play Bopara or Broad at the world cup.

Hehe so we've nearly got it right. Between us the team would be something like

Loye

Vaughan/Joyce/Bell to play 2 and 3

Pietersen

Collingwood

Flintoff

Dalrymple

Nixon

Anderson

Panesar

Then either Strauss or another bowler.

If you play Strauss you have 10 overs from Freddy, Panesar, Anderson then have to make 20 between Collingwood, Dalrymple, KP, Vaughan, Bell????? Perhaps need an extra all rounder.

Gotta admit it's a tough decision. I would definitely have Broad and Bopara in the squad though. It's a shame they haven't had a couple more matches each over the winter just to see how well they are developing. But I do agree it's a big risk and also we don't want to rush these young talented players. My mate is a big fan of what Australia do with their young players like Mitchell Johnson. He has a couple of cracking games and he's still not even guarenteed a place in the team, he has to really work for it. But then again we don't have the quality strength in depth quite yet. Sorry about the rant.........

[Flynny]

Hehe so we've nearly got it right. Between us the team would be something like

Loye

Vaughan/Joyce/Bell to play 2 and 3

Pietersen

Collingwood

Flintoff

Dalrymple

Nixon

Anderson

Panesar

Then either Strauss or another bowler.

If you play Strauss you have 10 overs from Freddy, Panesar, Anderson then have to make 20 between Collingwood, Dalrymple, KP, Vaughan, Bell????? Perhaps need an extra all rounder.

Gotta admit it's a tough decision. I would definitely have Broad and Bopara in the squad though. It's a shame they haven't had a couple more matches each over the winter just to see how well they are developing. But I do agree it's a big risk and also we don't want to rush these young talented players. My mate is a big fan of what Australia do with their young players like Mitchell Johnson. He has a couple of cracking games and he's still not even guarenteed a place in the team, he has to really work for it. But then again we don't have the quality strength in depth quite yet. Sorry about the rant.........

Collingwood fairly often bowls 10 overs, dependant on the type of pitch, and the rest can manage the other 10 with ease.

[Samu]

and just like that Broad is in the squad for the finals as cover for Tremlett and Lewis who have been flown home. It's a difficult situation though as if he plays, England have to remember he is playing against the best nation in the World and a bad display could be very bad for his moral. I'd definitely rather have him in that Mahmood though.

[Geo V]

I think he's been out of form with the ball lately, or something like that. He's very useful at picking up speedy runs at the bottom of the order, though, as so long as he gets bowling again he's good where he is.

Uhh, just out of interest, assuming we had everyone fit (Anderson, KP, etc.) who would you play at the World Cup if it was tomorrow?

Its going to be strange to see what the pitches are like in the West Indies. If it is anything like the past they`ll be fast bowler friendly wickets which would then put Montys place within the side at risk or if you go with Monty as a wicket taking bowler, you`d have to drop Darylmple because he is a slow bowler who is decent at having a swing at the back end of an innings.

I`d probably pick the following....

Joyce (best formed batsman who deserves to open)

Loye (we need someone to take a chance a small the ball over the infield during the powerplays)

Bell (solid enough)

Vaughan (Form and fitness are major worries but his pressence alone as skip lifts the team)

Pietersen (our best player)

Collingwood (solid batsman when inform, our best fielder and bowls

Flintoff (needs to find his batting form but good enough to be included as a bowler alone)

Reid (Nixon has been energetic but we need runs here. I think they`ll go for Nixon but I`d have Reid as WK)

Plunkett (Performed well and is a good enough to play. He is one of a few of our bowlers who can bat a bit)

Andersen (Seems to have returned to his form of a couple of years ago)

Panasaar (a wicket taker bowler who can change the pace of a game)

Thats my effort. Strauss misses out as does Darylmple. Strauss because he has lost his opening spot in the one-dayers and he should stick to test cricket where he has more time to pick and choose his shots. Darylmple has been dropped because his bowling is in-effective and with both Vaughan and Pietersen in the team, if we need a slower bowler at times they can step in. If the pitches are out and out pace pitches I`d prefer Lewis in for Monty but at WK I think Nixon`s batting is a huge issue although I do love his mouthyness as WK and energy but as Botham was saying in commentary, you have got to have the game to be mouthy and he hasnt got it.