Flynny

Let’s not be too kind to him because we are rightly mad at our own owners and directors. Brendan tore out one of the best recruitment teams in the country to put his own placemen in charge, presided over spending silly money and wages on some crap players we’re still stuck with, picked fights with talent, and then tried to pretend he wasn’t part of the problem. Sounds like the same pattern here. Our owners should be hugely faulted for making a deal with the devil - agreeing to gamble, to tear up things that were working to give that colossal egotist more control over football operations was incredibly stupid, and we’re still paying for it. But the devil in this scenario is still Rodgers.

Dyche just rapidly going out of date. The equivalent of appointing Mark Hughes in 2014, or Pulis or Allardyce in 2020. Might do something grimly effective for you but it’s going to end in tears.

Carrick is still developing as a manager and finished 10th with an average team with no parachute payments (completely respectable result!). He's got more upside than a lot of options we've been linked with.

Nigel's free and in better health. Squad needs a revamp and the culture needs a shakeup. We need to plan for a two-year clearout and rebuild, with a spare year of parachute payments just in case. Feels like a no-brainer

Right call, and I’m glad he made it as it’s easier to be generous about him than if he was clinging on. He has been great for England overall, but clearly been at a point where his tactical limitations held us back for last couple of years. Simultaneously pleased and fearful though - Lampard and Gerrard being talked about as possibles? Give me strength. Not a given that his replacement will actually be better. They absolutely must get someone who can coach attacking patterns of play. I hope the FA retain Gareth as a consultant across age groups (including senior team), working with the managers to create positive environments, something he is clearly very talented at.

I think it’s important to be aware we aren’t going to get someone proven at elite level to be a national coach. The most important thing we can go for with this squad is someone who we think can properly coach attacking patterns of play. Even if they’re not a big name, which they probably won’t be, I’ll think the FA have it right if that’s what they gamble on, even if the gamble doesn’t pan out. Do also think Southgate has made me think there is something intangibly much better about an English coach.

On top of that, I couldn’t really see what Rice was doing the whole tournament, and he seemed to lose possession quite a lot. Midfield really does need sorting. Much as Jude looks great at 10 for Real, I suspect England need him at 8 in harness with Rice and to leave Foden some actual room to do his stuff. Will also work better if we stop automatically starting Kane.

This is a good assessment. Respect the man. England have been better than for a long time despite the haters and he does deserve some credit. We should get someone new in now, not reactively, not to tear up everything Southgate has done but to build on and improve it. Keep him in post until his contract is out in December to consult and hand over smoothly. That game was weirdly the best I’ve seen England in a while, I thought. Upped our tempo in response to a good team. Took a side who will go down as one of the best tournament sides for a while nearly all the way. No shame in that defeat, even though it stings.

I've always been gently pro-Southgate - but the problems today were clearly ones of coaching, or lack of. All running into each others' spaces all match, quality midfielders (and Alexander Arnold) getting caught in possession constantly. I do think Southgate seems to be a good man manager and to have created a great environment in the national team, so there's things he's done well which we shouldn't underestimate the importance of preserving. But as the quality of the squad has improved since 2018, when he did well with a fairly limited team, he's not been able to find the coaching solutions to move the team on. In some important ways it's actually regressing. If we're going to play with Kane dropping deep and the wide forwards bombing past him and/or combining with him, there is no point playing a number 10 who is going to run into the same spaces. You either have to forcefully tell Kane to play on the shoulder, or not bother playing a 10. This has been a problem for years. The right midfield for this team next game, without tearing everything up, is probably something like Mainoo sat in at 6 with Rice and Bellingham as twin 8s.

Agree with you on this, but it would be a mistake to sign a manager who is a radical departure from how the squad is used to playing. We'll also have been tracking signings to play possession football for the last 12 months, so if we sign someone with a very different style all that work goes in the bin. They need to find someone who is different but not radically different. If they sign Moyes it would signal to me that the top brass really have no clue how to run a club.

Deflated in the sense that we may now appoint a manager we think will keep us up but who has a low ceiling, instead of taking a punt on someone who has upside. Seeing Leicester fans talk positively about potentially seeing David Moyes in post has ruined my week. I’d rather risk getting relegated again than turning into Crystal Palace.

This is absolutely right. He didn't say it wasn't a good performance, he was just saying the team have played better without so much reward, which we know is true - converted nearly every chance last night and have regularly had games which were the total opposite. This performance is super encouraging to me. We've all been worried about what happens if Maresca tries to be too purist after promotion (assuming we can get one more win...). This performance showed he has a plan that works versus opponents who come onto us. He can and will adapt. We have had a storming season with a little bump in the road until recently. The negativity is insane.

Interesting choice to cede so much possession. Not sure if he’s trying to answer some of those questions about a lack of plan B, or just playing to Vards’ strengths to get us over the line. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

Half of this thread is part of the reason. The tension in the crowd. The panicking after a few defeats. The sudden recontextualising of the whole season (“we haven’t actually played that well”, pull the other one). Our fans have a weak mentality and it ripples outwards.

This is a ridiculous lineup for this stage in the competition.