hackneyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 As I said, having a different opinion to me is not bollocks. But the parrticular things you said are bollocks. I find the fact that Fryatt has been our top scorer for 2 seasons, was top in assist last season, had 1 goal in 3 last season, and 4 goals in 6 starts this season, makes you look stupid when you say he's shit. Yes, you just continue to trot out the seasons when he has scored and overlook those when he hasn't. I want to see players come in who will improve the squad, we hopefully now have the money to do it. We certainly don't have the money to keep every player and buy new ones. Let Fryatt go to Hull, let's see just how many he will score. How many poor/average players have people on this board supported over the last few years? NFP put together a side that massively over achieved last season, he had a shopping list for whether or not we got promoted. He obviously knew the limitations of this side. Fryatt is not that good, his one on one's are appalling. His fitness levels are appalling He seems to sulk How many times did he touch the ball the other night. Anything over 350k for him will be good business.
Wig_Wam_Bam Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Also the fans have got a right to be mad at Fryatt and Hobbs after they allegedly wanted to leave at the start of the season. Dont you think that shows their level of commitment to the club! I personally say f$@k em!
hackneyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 What's the point in just throwing it around at will? Money doesn't guarantee success. No it didn't. We played 46 league games. How can you over-achieve over 46 games? Saying 'we over-achieved last season' is typical of the fooking shit people are coming out with, just fobbing away real facts by saying we were lucky. fooking stupid. I didn't say we were lucky. The sum was greater and the total of the parts ??? It wasn't going to happen again though. 'Money doesn't guarantee success. ' It helps though. 'How can you over-achieve over 46 games? ' Just making yourself look a bit silly now.
hackneyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 And I'd appreciate you not saying I was talking fooking shit and am fooking stupid.
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Yes, you just continue to trot out the seasons when he has scored and overlook those when he hasn't. I want to see players come in who will improve the squad, we hopefully now have the money to do it. We certainly don't have the money to keep every player and buy new ones. Let Fryatt go to Hull, let's see just how many he will score. How many poor/average players have people on this board supported over the last few years? NFP put together a side that massively over achieved last season, he had a shopping list for whether or not we got promoted. He obviously knew the limitations of this side. Fryatt is not that good, his one on one's are appalling. His fitness levels are appalling He seems to sulk How many times did he touch the ball the other night. Anything over 350k for him will be good business. What like season's 3 years ago? Season's when he played in an awful team that got relegated? Season's when he was like 21 and has improved since? The last 2 season's aren't recent form (like 10 games would be) that is 2 seasons. If you are holdinga grudge over 3 years ago get over it. Point is his most recent season at Championship level was a good one. He's played little this season and as I've said he aint been at his best, but writing him off would be stupid as he is not the only players to have underperformed this season. I've got no problem with improving the squad, but the players people are calling shit are simply not. This is my problem. NP wouldn't have got rid of Fryatt, Wellens, Hobbs or Weale because they were key players for us last season, and he knew that. He may have had a shopping list, that's fine, but he wasn't thick enough to let his better players go who were already here.
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Also the fans have got a right to be mad at Fryatt and Hobbs after they allegedly wanted to leave at the start of the season. Dont you think that shows their level of commitment to the club! I personally say f$@k em! Interesting word you used there
gibwarrior1988 Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Interesting word you used there Ditto, I can personally state that Hobbs didn't want to leave, was merely probably unhappy with the lack lustre training style of Soppy Sousa
hackneyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 You don't know what NFP would have done, and you certainly don't know what he would have done with money to spend. I'll trust Sven to put together a team that may go up and stay there a lot more than I would NFP.
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 I didn't say we were lucky. The sum was greater and the total of the parts ??? It wasn't going to happen again though. 'Money doesn't guarantee success. ' It helps though. 'How can you over-achieve over 46 games? ' Just making yourself look a bit silly now. Explain that to me. The 'sum', or the 'team' is always greater than the 'parts' or the 'players' if you like. A team full of great players could be shit if not managed properly. See Sousa, I'm sorry but that was just bad management. Santa Cruz or no Santa Cruz, Sousa was a shit manager. But the players still have to be good enough to achieve something. You don't finish 5th because you aren't good enough. You seem to be suggesting that the players were performing better than they actually can. That is impossible. The best they can do is perform to the best of their ability, they can not do better than that. Money helps of course it does, but that doesn't mean you should spend it for the sake of it. Explain how I look silly. Answer my question.
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 You don't know what NFP would have done, and you certainly don't know what he would have done with money to spend. I'll trust Sven to put together a team that may go up and stay there a lot more than I would NFP. I know NP would not have got rid of those 4 players. Like I said, he's not stupid. He would have got rid of the deadwood - maybe Neilson, N'Guessan, DJ, etc. But not key players. You build a team around the key players, you don't just buy new ones. That's not how you build a team. If you trust Sven more than NP after about 5 games that backs up my point
nickelbyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Take for example Hobbs, he lacks pace. NP knew this and had cover with Oakley in the midfield to sit in front of the back four with Wayne Brown. Sven is stretching the game and trying to play with a higher tempo which he keeps on saying, and this exposes Hobbs at the back. One time this year he actually fell over his feet! So Hobbs is a great defender but simply may not fit the new system. Same with Berner. Therefore as you say they have ability in a certain game-plan or style, but don't seem to be fitting in with Sven's. So if he has a different philosophy and the financial backing why not? Think you should probably move on, Pearson manages Hull now who are actually below us in the table. No need for wholesale changes necessarily but Sven does seem to have a certain idea of what he is doing, CV speaks for itself
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Take for example Hobbs, he lacks pace. NP knew this and had cover with Oakley in the midfield to sit in front of the back four with Wayne Brown. Sven is stretching the game and trying to play with a higher tempo which he keeps on saying, and this exposes Hobbs at the back. One time this year he actually fell over his feet! So Hobbs is a great defender but simply may not fit the new system. Same with Berner. Therefore as you say they have ability in a certain game-plan or style, but don't seem to be fitting in with Sven's. So if he has a different philosophy and the financial backing why not? Think you should probably move on, Pearson manages Hull now who are actually below us in the table. No need for wholesale changes necessarily but Sven does seem to have a certain idea of what he is doing, CV speaks for itself But if he's tripping over his own feet it's not the style of play or philosophy, it's just that he's playing badly, probably due to a lack of confidence. I admit he's been poor but I'm sure he'll return to form soon. Hobbs was fantastic towards the end of last season when Oakley wasn't playing. We have to realise it is unlikely that we will keep both Vitor and Davies anyway, and a prospect like Hobbs shouldn't be fobbed off because we temporarily have players performing better than him
rams r4 sh*ggin Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 only 1 way to settle this between you lot............ true harry hill style FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT oh sorry not possible as there gonna be arguements over whos a better fighter its obvious that every person has their own opinion on each player and not every1 is going to agree with others. You all have your reasons for those opinions and maybe a poll should be done to get a majority opinion from fans on here. It doesnt mean that the highest polled answer wins but can give a general consensus on what fans think.
nickelbyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 But if he's tripping over his own feet it's not the style of play or philosophy, it's just that he's playing badly, probably due to a lack of confidence. I admit he's been poor but I'm sure he'll return to form soon. Hobbs was fantastic towards the end of last season when Oakley wasn't playing. We have to realise it is unlikely that we will keep both Vitor and Davies anyway, and a prospect like Hobbs shouldn't be fobbed off because we temporarily have players performing better than him Agreed makes sense, by no means think we should get rid of Hobbs, he is still a great prospect, just think he suited NP more than he does Sven's approach, and that is opinion from what I have seen. Just thinking of the last matches where he was left for dead by Hammil in the Barnsley game and Reid in the last match. The gap between midfield and defence leaves his lack of pace exposed, so what do you do expect him to do improve? let someone drop back and cover him when the fullbacks attack? or bring in a slightly quicker player. Thats all I am saying about Hobbs, as after all you cant teach speed.
nickelbyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 However I am sure he will know and Sven will know a hell of a lot more than me about it
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Agreed makes sense, by no means think we should get rid of Hobbs, he is still a great prospect, just think he suited NP more than he does Sven's approach, and that is opinion from what I have seen. Just thinking of the last matches where he was left for dead by Hammil in the Barnsley game and Reid in the last match. The gap between midfield and defence leaves his lack of pace exposed, so what do you do expect him to do improve? let someone drop back and cover him when the fullbacks attack? or bring in a slightly quicker player. Thats all I am saying about Hobbs, as after all you cant teach speed. True. You can't teach speed, but I think in time he will learn to imporve his positioning, which will help, that can often get better with experience. There's no doubt there are things he can improve on, I just think we should give him time to do it. Like I've said he doesn't deseerve to be playing at the moment, but it does annoy me when some people write players off.
Sk4 Posted 12 November 2010 Author Posted 12 November 2010 Last year Hobbs was lcfc fans player of the year nobody complained about his lack of pace then , I think he will come good again he is still young and still learning , where as fryatt has been in and out of the side since he signed for us I think he will be off in January and goodluck to him.
hackneyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Explain that to me. The 'sum', or the 'team' is always greater than the 'parts' or the 'players' if you like. A team full of great players could be shit if not managed properly. But the players still have to be good enough to achieve something. You don't finish 5th because you aren't good enough. Explain how I look silly. Answer my question. So a team of great players can be shit if not managed properly. But a team of average players can't be good by being managed properly. Did you ever see a Martin O'Neill side? NFP had a side who would run through walls for him, but he knew they weren't good enough. Weale, Morrison, Hobbs & Fryatt have not well performed this season, Sven has money to spend, he will replace those who don't do what is expected. I hope all 4 of them step up and save us some money, but I think they've all been given chances and so far have been found wanting. The bench at best for them until they improve or are sold.
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 So a team of great players can be shit if not managed properly. But a team of average players can't be good by being managed properly. Did you ever see a Martin O'Neill side? NFP had a side who would run through walls for him, but he knew they weren't good enough. Weale, Morrison, Hobbs & Fryatt have not well performed this season, Sven has money to spend, he will replace those who don't do what is expected. I hope all 4 of them step up and save us some money, but I think they've all been given chances and so far have been found wanting. The bench at best for them until they improve or are sold. But this is where you are wrong. They were good enough, that's why they finished 5th and were robbed in the play-offs. Again, explain to me how you can be better than you are. That's impossible. I agree they have been found wanting to some extent so far this season, however I am saying they have done well in the past and writing them off is short sighted. They have underperformed this season, they did not overperform last season. There's no limit to how bad you can play, but you can only play so well.
hackneyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 whoooooosh You can't be better than you are, as an individual. The best manager in the world can only get you to your best on the day. No better than that. On that we agree. But with football we're talking about 111 egos on the pitch. You, as an individual, cann ot when that game all on your own. A good manager creates team that is better than the eleven individuals as they compliment each other. ffs I feel like a teacher. Let's just agree to disgree
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 whoooooosh You can't be better than you are, as an individual. The best manager in the world can only get you to your best on the day. No better than that. On that we agree. But with football we're talking about 111 egos on the pitch. You, as an individual, cann ot when that game all on your own. A good manager creates team that is better than the eleven individuals as they compliment each other. ffs I feel like a teacher. Let's just agree to disgree I agree - but the players have to be good enough to do their specific roles. Specific roles must be done properly for the team to function. No matter how good the system or Pearson's motivation was, if we had shit players, we would not have finished 5th. We should be adding quality so we can progress, but clearly plenty of last season's team were good enough for a Championship promotion challenge.
hackneyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Has anybody said that the players are shit though? They were a side that did well last year but this year the owners want promotion. Thanks to our poor start we have to achieve more than last season in fewer games. The team has to improve hugely for there to be any chance of us going up. As I've said elsewhere, Hobbs hasn't been good this season. Davies, Vitor and Tunchev (when fit) are all better players. He will struggle to get back in to this side at his best, at a time when he is well below his normal standards he will only get back in due to injury. As we saw last week.
hackneyfox Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 The main difference of course is that Sven isn't NFP Some players will improve their game under him, some won't, that doesn't make them poorer players , it just means they need a new club
Kitchandro Posted 12 November 2010 Posted 12 November 2010 Has anybody said that the players are shit though? They were a side that did well last year but this year the owners want promotion. Thanks to our poor start we have to achieve more than last season in fewer games. The team has to improve hugely for there to be any chance of us going up. As I've said elsewhere, Hobbs hasn't been good this season. Davies, Vitor and Tunchev (when fit) are all better players. He will struggle to get back in to this side at his best, at a time when he is well below his normal standards he will only get back in due to injury. As we saw last week. But is it fair to demand promotion this year though? I'd say definitely not. I'd disagree with the pressure they are putting on Sven because that pressure will only filter down to the team. Unnecessary pressure may cause some bad decisions made hastily by Sven. If he doesn't feel he is being given time to build a team, then he may very well attempt to buy one. But this rarely works in the short term anyway. I think it would be far better to give these players a chance. I believe plenty of the players we have are good enough to get us out of this division. Now under Sven, our form has improved, so I don't think we should be desperate to get rid of and buy a bunch of players. In the case of Hobbs, he's not playing well enough to get inn the team, but that doesn't mean he won't be in the future. Vitor and Davies will probably not be here next season anyway. I disagree the team has to improve hugely for us to go up anyway. I think we have the players to do so (as we did last year through the play-offs where we were unlucky), and I think we have a strong squad. We are only 5 points off the play-offs as we speak. All I ask is that everyone is patient and gives the squad time to gel with a decent manager - that goes for the owners, manager and fans.
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