Grewks Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Are the likes of Gally, King, Wellens and others not actually good players, but instead were made to look good during our first season back in the championship as they were feeding off the momentum of winning the league. Just a thought, could always remember hobbs in the first two seasons under pearson and looked like the best CB we have had for years, then when we lost the playoffs and Pearson it began going downhill. What was/is the problem for this? - Loss of momentum - Sousa? - Sven - or Wellens? (might aswell put him on here as he gets blamed for everything else)
Kitchandro Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 No they are good players. Gallagher is performing to a decent level still. Wellens was brilliant for the most part up until this season. King is a quality talent but he just hasn't fulfilled his potential. Hopefully he still can. Wellens is simply past it IMO. Too old and too unfit. King is a mystery. Hobbs is still a decent defender, he had his confidence destroyed by Sousa and couldn't get it back under Sven. Similar to Waggy. Confidence is a major part of sport and it's this rather than literally the momentum of winning the league, which is just a reason for a positive state of mind. Actual momentum in this sense doesn't even exist. Players can be great and then reduced to nothing if they lose confidence. The likes of Wellens, King and Gallagher at least were good players for us.
bluearmyfox23 Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 "Kitchandro" you have it the nail on the head!!
Haydos Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 King still baffles me. With some top level, genuine coaching I think he could be a much, much better player.
accessory Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Wellens only joined us after promotion back to the Championship. To describe him as "brilliant" during any stage of his time with us is stretching the meaning of the word to breaking point. He was a step up from the likes of Stephen Hughes, perhaps - but never ever of the quality of a Muzzy Izzet - or even a Robbie Savage in his heyday with us. He and Gally are lower-league journeymen who aren't good enough to take us to the level we need to be, still less to keep us there.
Kitchandro Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Wellens only joined us after promotion back to the Championship. To describe him as "brilliant" during any stage of his time with us is stretching the meaning of the word to breaking point. He was a step up from the likes of Stephen Hughes, perhaps - but never ever of the quality of a Muzzy Izzet - or even a Robbie Savage in his heyday with us. He and Gally are lower-league journeymen who aren't good enough to take us to the level we need to be, still less to keep us there. If he had pace 2 years ago he'd have pissed all over Savage. And there are plenty of top Championship players who could be described as 'lower-league journeymen' at some point, most of them in fact. I wonder what kind of players you expected us to attract in Pearson's first tenure when we nearly got promoted, and even now when we are midtable.
Guest bennytwohats Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Confidence is a major part of sport and it's this rather than literally the momentum of winning the league, which is just a reason for a positive state of mind. Actual momentum in this sense doesn't even exist. Players can be great and then reduced to nothing if they lose confidence. It's funny that, given you recognise the above, you think that it's okay to "abuse" players who have a bad performance. It's exactly the above as to why people moan about our fans because you can see the confidence draining from the players every time we start to get on their backs. For what it's worth though I agree with what you have written in here. Wellens and Gallagher have put in some absolutely immense performances over the past few years for us.
Saxondale Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Performance appears to be about half reliant on ability and half on mental state. O'Neill built one of our best ever sides with a bunch of unlikely heroes: Matt Elliott - Signed at the age of 28 from lowly Oxford Muzzy Izzet - found in Chelsea reserves Neil Lennon - Crewe Robbie Savage - Crewe Etc, etc. But he instilled a winning mentality and belief in the team which made them brilliant If you want an obvious example of how confidence can qffect performance, just look at Torres!
Kitchandro Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 It's funny that, given you recognise the above, you think that it's okay to "abuse" players who have a bad performance. It's exactly the above as to why people moan about our fans because you can see the confidence draining from the players every time we start to get on their backs. For what it's worth though I agree with what you have written in here. Wellens and Gallagher have put in some absolutely immense performances over the past few years for us. Define 'abuse'. I will criticise a player on here if they are not playing well, I've never pretended otherwise. Occasionally I will shout at a player during the match if I get really annoyed with them, though never anything non-football related or too personal. What I remember saying the other day was that Beckford deserved the stick he got at West Ham, i.e sarcastic applause and booing, for the reason that he wasn't putting in satisfactory effort. I think when fans travel all that way and pay extortionate amounts they deserve a return of effort from the players.
Happy Fox Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Performance appears to be about half reliant on ability and half on mental state. O'Neill built one of our best ever sides with a bunch of unlikely heroes: Matt Elliott - Signed at the age of 28 from lowly Oxford Muzzy Izzet - found in Chelsea reserves Neil Lennon - Crewe Robbie Savage - Crewe Etc, etc. But he instilled a winning mentality and belief in the team which made them brilliant If you want an obvious example of how confidence can qffect performance, just look at Torres! I am thinking we should raid Crewe they have got some decent young prospects their for e.g Max Clayton, Nick Powell and Ashley Westwood.
accessory Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Performance appears to be about half reliant on ability and half on mental state. O'Neill built one of our best ever sides with a bunch of unlikely heroes: Matt Elliott - Signed at the age of 28 from lowly Oxford Muzzy Izzet - found in Chelsea reserves Neil Lennon - Crewe Robbie Savage - Crewe Etc, etc. But he instilled a winning mentality and belief in the team which made them brilliant If you want an obvious example of how confidence can qffect performance, just look at Torres! Or the turnaround in Sunderland's results since MON took over there..
Saxondale Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Or the turnaround in Sunderland's results since MON took over there.. Yep!
accessory Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 If he had pace 2 years ago he'd have pissed all over Savage. Even a declining Savage owned him in both the home and away games vs Derby in 09-10 And there are plenty of top Championship players who could be described as 'lower-league journeymen' at some point, most of them in fact. But many of them have the potential to improve beyond that, under the right management. I'm not sure that is true about either Gally or Wellens I wonder what kind of players you expected us to attract in Pearson's first tenure when we nearly got promoted, and even now when we are midtable. Pearson had to make signings based on his budget at the time. They're not necessarily the same as the ones we would have made if he'd been given the resources he has under our current owners.
Kitchandro Posted 5 January 2012 Posted 5 January 2012 Pearson had to make signings based on his budget at the time. They're not necessarily the same as the ones we would have made if he'd been given the resources he has under our current owners. Perhaps not. But that doesn't mean they aren't good Championship players. That doesn't mean they haven't weighed in with a good number of assists and played well over the last 2 years. And it is fact that they played a significant part in getting us into the play-offs 2 years ago. In addition Championship fans and pundits hold them both in high regard. A team in our position at this point in the season will struggle to find these top flight players you speak of, and even when we have done that they've generally been a disappointment so far.
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