Rincewind Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23518732 http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2013/07/18/update-jeremy-hunt-and-the-lewisham-court-case/
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 More cuts to welfare then to cover the £1million a week the hospital loses.
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 More cuts to welfare then to cover the £1million a week the hospital loses. Or maybe take it from foreign aid/actually make top companies pay their tax? That would work too.
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Or maybe take it from foreign aid/actually make top companies pay their tax? That would work too. How can we make top companies pay tax to us while we are tied in the EU? Foreign Aid would be a good start though, with you there. On a side note, how many hospitals does London need and how much do we actually allow them to lose before we can start shutting them when there are alternatives very nearby?
Bryn Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 More cuts to welfare then to cover the £1million a week the hospital loses. Lewisham Hospital doesn't lose any money, a neighbouring hospital does. Jeremy Hunt is a deplorable **** and his policies are wrong and he fully deserves this thrown back in his face.
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 How can we make top companies pay tax to us while we are tied in the EU? Foreign Aid would be a good start though, with you there. On a side note, how many hospitals does London need and how much do we actually allow them to lose before we can start shutting them when there are alternatives very nearby? Global tax rate. Wishful thinking but the only way to reign them in. I'm sure there's a proportion of hospital beds to population that is necessary for a functioning first world society that someone has worked out. Perhaps one bed for every 100 people, so about 80,000 beds required for London? Or maybe 160,000 for one in 50? I'm not sure what the ratio is/should be? As for the other question, a persons health really shouldn't have a financial value. Not ever.
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Global tax rate. Wishful thinking but the only way to reign them in. I'm sure there's a proportion of hospital beds to population that is necessary for a functioning first world society that someone has worked out. Perhaps one bed for every 100 people, so about 80,000 beds required? Or maybe 160,000 for one in 50? I'm not sure what the ratio is/should be? As for the other question, a persons health really shouldn't have a financial value. Not ever. Well that's not going to ever happen so it's out the window as an idea. It shouldn't but unfortunately in a country in our financial state it does. We either try and get to grips with it now or we plod along and wait 30 years when we have no money left and we end up with people dying in the street.
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Lewisham Hospital doesn't lose any money, a neighbouring hospital does. Jeremy Hunt is a deplorable **** and his policies are wrong and he fully deserves this thrown back in his face. Sorry that's what I was meant to say, but that hospital does more and serves far more patients so the sensible thing would have been to shut this down and leave that one untouched which isn't going to happen now. £1million a week is going to have to come from somewhere.
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Well that's not going to ever happen so it's out the window as an idea. It shouldn't but unfortunately in a country in our financial state it does. We either try and get to grips with it now or we plod along and wait 30 years when we have no money left and we end up with people dying in the street. If we can come up with the idea of the NHS and maintain it while still under a crippling amount of debt from WW2 we can maintain it now. I find the idea of putting a price on someones health utterly reprehensible. If some money can be saved by streamlining things and cutting out middle management etc then fair enough, but anything that affects the frontline service in any way shouldn't even be considered.
Bryn Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Sorry that's what I was meant to say, but that hospital does more and serves far more patients so the sensible thing would have been to shut this down and leave that one untouched which isn't going to happen now. £1million a week is going to have to come from somewhere. It's besides the point in any case, the point is this complete arsehole and the shite government he represents are roaming around privatising and cutting the NHS without a public mandate doing everything by the backdoor and without consulting anyone and it is completely wrong. It's high time a clear message to that effect was sent.
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 If we can come up with the idea of the NHS and maintain it while still under a crippling amount of debt from WW2 we can maintain it now. I find the idea of putting a price on someones health utterly reprehensible. If some money can be saved by streamlining things and cutting out middle management etc then fair enough, but anything that affects the frontline service in any way shouldn't even be considered. What we spend per head now is massively inflated from what it was in WW2 though. I think if Attlee saw what the NHS had turned into now with contracts for goverment friends, pen pushers galore and thousands being left on the floor to die he's be turning in his grave. In theory I agree but we will be getting to a time where life does have a price very soon with life expectancy going the way it is. It's besides the point in any case, the point is this complete arsehole and the shite government he represents are roaming around privatising and cutting the NHS without a public mandate doing everything by the backdoor and without consulting anyone and it is completely wrong. It's high time a clear message to that effect was sent. They have completely ringfenced the NHS for cuts despite the absolute shambles it became under the last government!!!
Bryn Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 If you believe that you'll believe anything And the NHS is not a shambles.
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 What we spend per head now is massively inflated from what it was in WW2 though. I think if Attlee saw what the NHS had turned into now with contracts for goverment friends, pen pushers galore and thousands being left on the floor to die he's be turning in his grave. In theory I agree but we will be getting to a time where life does have a price very soon with life expectancy going the way it is. Totally with you on the government corruption and pen pushers. But the service itself (or at least the ideal of it) is possibly the single greatest thing this country has accomplished since seeing off fascism. Like I said, streamline and cut out corruption if possible (as always) but the essential idea should always be maintained. I sincerely hope not. Giving human health or life a direct monetary value smacks of the kind of ideal of social Darwinism we fought so hard against all that time ago. But only time is going to tell.
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 If you believe that you'll believe anything And the NHS is not a shambles. Of course it's shambles, have you not watched the news over the last few weeks? And all that happened under the last government. This is the problem with Labour supporters, you think the voters should judge you on ideology and thought rather than your actual 13 years in government.
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Totally with you on the government corruption and pen pushers. But the service itself (or at least the ideal of it) is possibly the single greatest thing this country has accomplished since seeing off fascism. Like I said, streamline and cut out corruption if possible (as always) but the essential idea should always be maintained. If it's so great why has no other country bothered to use the same system. The NHS is a like a religion here, everyone bows down to it, worships it and whatever it does wrong is swept under the carpet.
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 If it's so great why has no other country bothered to use the same system. The NHS is a like a religion here, everyone bows down to it, worships it and whatever it does wrong is swept under the carpet. But they do. The majority of Europe, Canada, Aus and the Scandinavian countries operate universal health care systems using social single-payer funding. As in the UK, the option to go private is there and you have to pay for elective procedures but the systems are very similar.
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 But they do. The majority of Europe, Canada, Aus and the Scandinavian countries operate universal health care systems using social single-payer funding. As in the UK, the option to go private is there and you have to pay for elective procedures but the systems are very similar. Not the same system though is it? For a start off if I go to Canada or Aus I have to pay. We are the only ones who provide a free and full service. As for the second line, thankfully.
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Not the same system though is it? For a start off if I go to Canada or Aus I have to pay. We are the only ones who provide a free and full service. As for the second line, thankfully. Ah, are you referring to 'health tourism'? Yeah, that's something that the UK seems to do uniquely, and I'm not in favour of it. Other than that though our healthcare system for naturalised citizens is very, very similar to those of the countries I've mentioned.
Guest MattP Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Ah, are you referring to 'health tourism'? Yeah, that's something that the UK seems to do uniquely, and I'm not in favour of it. Other than that though our healthcare system for naturalised citizens is very, very similar to those of the countries I've mentioned. Yep, in fact you could probably save at least whats needed to keep Lewisham open if you turned it back into a National Health Service rather than an International Health Service.
leicsmac Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Yep, in fact you could probably save at least whats needed to keep Lewisham open if you turned it back into a National Health Service rather than an International Health Service. I believe we are in agreement.
ManorFox Posted 1 August 2013 Posted 1 August 2013 Jeremy Hunt, Michael Gove and Elizabeth Truss all spiteful horrible oxygen thieves. In the corporate world if their ideas kept getting rejected, receiving votes of no confidence or over turned in the courts they would be fired. Only in politics can you keep your job despite being so utterly crap at it.
Rincewind Posted 1 August 2013 Author Posted 1 August 2013 Jeremy Hunt, Michael Gove and Elizabeth Truss all spiteful horrible oxygen thieves. In the corporate world if their ideas kept getting rejected, receiving votes of no confidence or over turned in the courts they would be fired. Only in politics can you keep your job despite being so utterly crap at it. And head of British Gas, BBC, Northern Rock.............. If he had got this through more hospitals across the country would follow.
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