Jump to content

leicsmac

Member
  • Post count

    12,807
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    2

Everything posted by leicsmac

  1. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Anyway, some good news: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011?fbclid=IwAR25yF-YCwPCxiIBTkKF7iAqeGsJM3Lt0KxyqApyTHmrO2Nxh1J_oiX5cKg And some bad and ugly news: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52161995
  2. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Sadly, you only have to look at climate change policy to realise that yes, that has already happened.
  3. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    I think it all should wait until the whole thing has run its course and see where everything has turned out to get a more accurate summation, but that's me.
  4. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Wasn't aware you cared so much about environmental abuse and animal welfare, Matt. But in all seriousness, the point is valid and I wish there was something that could be done, but as you say they are powerful, and sadly if we're looking at nations that do all that is said above then they're just part of a very long list of culpability (despite indeed being a major player on it). Which is rather depressing. That last line is pretty much where I come out. Just want to make the distinction between "large portion" and "all".
  5. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    I think that they thought they could operate business as usual while not losing money or face by containing it all in their usual brutally authoritarian manner. They were wrong, both about the way it spreads and its potential virulence, underestimating them both. So yes, I think you're right. And there should indeed be recriminations and repercussions for that. My point, as has been elaborated on this thread a couple of times now, is that when this is all over they shouldn't be the only government in the dock in the courtroom of public opinion - and I'm going to continue to point out arguments that state or imply that they should be as simplistic and erroneous.
  6. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    First point, then that's on them, not the Chinese. Second point, you may well be right and they thought they could cover it up successfully. They were wrong and a great many people are paying the price for their hubris. But, as you say, it was not intentional (glad that was clarified after the use of the word knowingly) and folks either entirely blaming China for this starting or entirely blaming the West for not doing enough are both wrong. The truth is somewhere in between, IMO. A great many governments have to answer for the way this has all panned out, the Chinese just chief amongst them.
  7. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    I'm genuinely curious to know opinions on why not and why would they, in that bolded order.
  8. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Don't let facts of the matter get in the way of a well trodden and easy to posit narrative - where's the fun in that?
  9. Someone really should have seen this coming - economic and social crises breed fascism like excrement breeds flies. Or maybe they did but they know there's nothing they can really do, which is pretty horrible. That may well be true - but then, who steps in? Or do folks let fascism - the genuine article, it seems, this time - get a foothold in Europe again?
  10. Rather than going for the low-hanging fruit wrt that part of Carl's comment, perhaps it might be a decent idea to actually address the more important part where the original Tweet was taken pretty much entirely out of context and was proven to be so? As earlier, all of this makes for a nice distraction from both the case and body count for Covid-19 rising like Trump's toupee in a breeze on his watch though.
  11. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Bloody hell, Orban deciding that he doesn't even need the mild veneer over the neofascism any more and is taking advantage of the crisis and going right for it.
  12. To be fair though, if I was openly (or secretly) hoping Trump gets re-elected either "for the lulz" or because the policy he encourages actually resonates with me I'd be looking for any opportunity at all to deflect from what's going on right now because pretty soon some extremely pointed questions are going to be asked about how lots of people are being measured for pine on his watch.
  13. Personally, I'm thinking that much anger isn't just about the matter at hand tbh.
  14. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    ...and those mistakes (which IMO are rather beyond mere potential right now) will also cost lives, though likely not so many. Implying all of the blame (as opposed to most of it) lies in one place is irrational, and more importantly, erroneous, IMO.
  15. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    ...evidently the repeated times I have criticised the Chinese government for being authoritarian arseholes wasn't clear enough. Apologies. For the record, once again - they are, and while they share the majority of the blame for all this, they do not share all of it and those who claim it is so and so overlook the role other countries have played once it got to their own borders clearly have their own agenda in all this. NB. I doubt the Chinese leaders themselves sing the Red Flag any more given the opulence they live in these days, much less me. That they have, I agree. But the buck stops, as it always has, with the man at the very top. Trump clearly didn't have a problem with that before, he shouldn't have a problem with it now. This analogy was touched on earlier - IMO it's more like having your house burn, not calling the fire brigade until it's too late...but then your neighbours don't evacuate their own houses until there's real problems either. Is the responsibility for getting out of their own houses/fighting the fire in their own houses on them or on the person who started it all? As was also said earlier, people keep telling me national sovereignty is a big thing and as such so is having control over and responsibility for events within one's own borders...well, that cuts both ways, not just one.
  16. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    They could well be being illogical and "panicking" (not sure of the word use there but not sure of a better one) and be lying about it, it's perfectly plausible. What I don't think is that it is a certainty in the way that has been displayed here (opinion being stated as fact on something like this pisses me off, frankly) and that doesn't change that it's a poor political move overall IMO. And yeah, when I see comments criticising China with nary a mention of what other governments have or haven't done that has resulted in the spread of this virus in their own countries, in the absence of conflicting information I am going to infer that commenter doesn't think the latter worthy of discussion and as such unimportant. Qualifying one's remarks is a good thing to do. Yes, China should take the lion's share of the blame for this situation starting off and building into the firestorm it has become. But they're hardly the only guilty party in this matter and I will continue to point that out when people ignore it.
  17. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Well, the Chinese leadership have a lot more experience at being bastards in charge than he does - so I'm thinking they're better at knowing when to lie.
  18. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Hahaha, I wish - it would be better paying than what I've got now, no doubt. That being said, allow me to clarify I don't think it is in the long or even short-term interest of any government - not the Chinese, not Trump, not Bolsanaro, not Boris, not anyone - to lie about the scale of infection in their particular countries because there is simply no way such a lie leads to anything other than increased body count and thus increased economic, social and thus governmental pressure on them. Even ruthless authoritarians for whom self-interest and maintaining power is the guiding star are aware of that. Of course, such folks may be lying about it anyway having not thought it through but if they are it's illogical and a long-term mistake I wouldn't expect power-mongers to make, to be honest. You'd think capable and ruthless leaders would be able to think this through to that logical conclusion.
  19. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    As has been discussed before I'm curious to know how not being totally forthcoming (to the international community and by extension their own citizenry) in order to save face actually benefits the Chinese leadership on this one once this all broke into the open. If they're lying about the amount of cases and by extension that they are in control of the situation then all that lie will do within the country is cost more lives and more money, which can only have an adverse effect on them staying in power (which, as you say, is what it's all about). It's not just about them lying in the international sphere, it's about them lying to their own citizens too, and you can bet that if the former is happening, so is the latter - and the latter doesn't really make much sense in a situation like this, purely because this isn't an human "subversive" that they can simply suppress or manipulate. Of course they lie early and often (as do many different governments all over the world), but them doing it purely to preserve reputation doesn't actually make much logical sense here because quite simply a virus doesn't care about reputation. NB. And it's rather tiresome to see the same old logically fallacious arguments trotted out repeatedly on here wrt the Chinese government on this one (bastards that they can be).
  20. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    I absolutely hate that you're likely so right about this. But people do need to get that the next warning to change might not be so kind as this one by comparison.
  21. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Just for a compare and contrast, have a look at the interview Marr did with the Korean Foreign Minister a little while back, if folks haven't already:
  22. I mean, Seoul's population density is high...but not that high.
  23. ...could be either depending on the individual IMO. There's something in this. Same problem with the UN tbh...enough power to be annoying to people and often inconvenience them but not enough to actually effect the kind of change that sometimes needs to be done on a wide scale. Sadly I think it will be that way so long as the big nation-states won't accept any authority other than their own.
  24. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    Well, history has shown that brutal authoritarians don't often let a good crisis go to waste, so yes...this could be worrying. However, on the flip side there does seem to be increasing demand for the kind of healthcare and workplace reform that is sorely needed in the US.
  25. leicsmac

    Corona Virus

    It's an interesting discussion, for sure - should one have sympathy for those who have difficult decisions to make while having power, when the vast majority of the time they chose to take on that power in the first place? I mean, I truly doubt that most people who have power are actively malicious and most of them are, indeed, looking to do their best for the people who put them there (if you live in a democracy)...but two reasonably simple truths are that power often corrupts and when an outcome is overwhelmingly negative, there often isn't much of a difference whether it was caused by incompetence or malice. Speaking personally, I can see why folks would criticise, but at the same time the only valid judgement of leadership when all of this is over is the count in bodies and suffering so I think whoever leads should at least perhaps be given the benefit of the doubt until then. Edit: The above with a caveat excepting blatantly idiotic or malicious decisions - like Trump withholding resources from states that didn't vote for him.
×
×
  • Create New...