leicsmac

Personally I think applying such judgement shows how we've progressed (or not) as a species, but fair enough. Second paragraph is interesting and actually plays into an earlier mention today on this thread; has the value of human life actually changed, or have the methods of devaluing it simply become more sophisticated in a way that we just think that it has? Edit: actually, the contemporary observation of a French officer had it about right for me: "C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre - C'est de la folie"

Fair, but I'm not sure about the necessity of the oppobrium here when it's painfully obvious the guy was both insanely privileged and also incredibly incompetent as a military officer, and only is remembered as fondly as he is in certain circles because he could afford to have people write positive stories about his legacy and people often mistake idiot disregard for life as positive bravery.

No, that's what privilege gets you, in spite of however much idiocy you also possess.

Possibly, though I think we've come at least something of a way from the times when the direct and killing and/or violation of someone with less social status in full view of everyone was considered acceptable.

... every time some poor Sikh (for instance) gets abused and/or attacked simply because someone with something on their mind thought they "looked" Muslim (eg, brown skin). And yes, I'm conflating the two to make the point that it's being done already and, like it or not, history shows very clearly where it ends.

It's always been about power. The methods of keeping and abusing that power have just become more sophisticated.

Lord Cardigan was a proper idiot, wasn't he?

It's not like people who generalise like that often make a distinction between religious affiliation anyway - mostly when they see the skin colour, they think that one particular religious demographic. Even if they're not. In any case, I can see why people get tired of it all - it's all so needless culture war bollocks. And it always ends the same way - with attempted ethnostates and associated ethnic "cleansing".

Again, I'm repeating things I've said before, but it's simply self-evident to me. On more than a few matters, it is one world or no world.

I come at this from a different angle - I find the obsessing over nationality mentioned here dispiriting not out of any moral sentiment, but out of simple pragmatism based on what it's been responsible for in the past and what it will be responsible for in the future.

It's actually essential to the future that kind of enmity ceases to be a barrier (at least in some cases) at all.

They really don't, or if they do such resources are distributed wildly unequally. Their system is entirely broken yet their marketing kudos makes them not only pretty much ignore that in favour of the culture war, but also market the sane concept in a lot of other places including the UK. Darkly remarkable, really.

Yeah, I don't think that Carville had it right when he said "It's the economy, stupid" either. But then I've said on here multiple times that neither cultural nor economic issues will mean anything at all on a planet that can barely give us food and water, so addressing that rather than so much interspecies pissing contests over much less important stuff is always going to be the biggest thing for me.

And all the time, this culture war rubbish gets treated as if it's the most important concern while other concerns are getting ready to mess everyone up good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-34317107 10 years ago, but I'm pretty sure the stance of that talking head or the viewership hasn't changed much positively in the meantime.

Fox News were clearly right about Birmingham then. Who knew?

Fair to say. I'm just giving something of a shrug to the idea that this all is somehow indicative of anything other than football policing, because in the field of sociopolitics, every nation with those weapons naturally has the ability to defend its interests and that of the people it has and is affiliated with. Do agree with your comment immediately above that this is more a UEFA matter than anything else.

Oh, and as a general comment on what some folks believe to be the matter behind this talking point: I really don't think any nation with nuclear weapons is in a position to say they're being too (italicised for emphasis) victimised, simply because they always have that very absolute option to address whoever might be victimising them.

There's something in that, too. Bigger problems are being overlooked, or even denied, in favour of whatever happens to be flavour of the month (or year) on social media.

I never knew that the fanbase of one football club was synonymous with the entire population of a monotheistic religious group and therefore to speak of one is to speak of the other. Interesting to know.

Put it this way; there are far greater influences on the mental health of children right now both present and future that are going much more ignored.

Perhaps it's because the world outside the UK is more so upside down that a UK Chancellor saying that, even if everything her detractors said were true, wouldn't be the most egregious, mock-worthy lie of the week, or even the day.

And to add to this, those who do learn from history are doomed to watch others repeat it. I've long thought that the last decade or so rather aped both the timeline of the TV show Years and Years and the actual 1930s. Neither of those are particularly optimal in the way they turn out for our species.

And the power-hungry and despotic tend to extend across a lot of demographics.

Sometimes adversarial politics gets things done in the right way. Often, it doesn't and mutual cooperation has to be done instead. Unfortunately, given the nature of things right now, there's far too many people who believe in all of the former and none of the latter.