Babylon

YAAAAAAWN... he was Director of Football when we signed Kante, that's a fact. And those scouts there at the time told the world what our system was in determining players and how it worked in terms of valuations, from their mouths.

And that's a fair criticism.

No, that's the role of the head of recruitment. Rudkin isn't there to get involved in scouting players and determining players.

Who was DOF when we signed Kante....

John Rudkin doesn't value the players, he's not a scout or head of recruitment. If you go back to a time when our scouts were signing diamonds and they loved to chat to all and sundry about the process. They identified the players and passed up the chain a value of said player... otherwise, how would Rudkijn know what the hell he's meant to start bidding at. Now, of course as you go up the chain of decisions he's CLEARLY got stuff wrong. Like allowing Rodgers to install his mate who had nothing but an utterly atrocious record, we all knew it at the time and everyone screamed NOOOOOO. I feel like people focus on all the small stuff, that he's basically not responsible for day to day. There was a lack of due diligence there and it's things like that which piss me off, more than blaming him for paying x, y, or z, when it's not his wheelhouse.

And the problems aren't all Rudkin, without wanting to go over the whole thing again... We accepted bids on players (Sourmare and Vesty) that the players turned down. That's using sources you used to state we'd turned other bids down. The FFP rules were changed and it became clear we needed to cut back at least 20% on wages, it's very hard to negotiate new contracts based on that. It's also hard to sell players or give them away if you don't have the budget to buy someone of equal ability, because it's better to keep them. Loans can be more lucrative that sales if the deals are right, or you are only getting seriously low offers. The wider world has changed; players have started running down contracts to take back power. Things aren't going to change until we've got a grip of the finances, which i'd like to think happens in the summer if we get promoted. Because we lose a lot of dead wood, we have increased revenue, and we should be able to get the wages right down in terms of % of revenue. There was no giant issue back when we were getting money for Musa, Iborra, Zieler, Lawrence, Moore, De Laet, Schlupp, Hernandez etc. So what's changed, circumstances as listed? Chairman? Or do you seriously think it's all down to Rudkin?

No, it probably means (if it's true) that we couldn't afford to cover his wages or whatever other fees were involved... for all we know, the agent was demanding a large signing-on fee, considering he's going to be on a free in the summer.

And we've been through all of this before, so I don't need to repeat it.

Did he go and ask them before then Ric? I mean, I'm fairly sure he knew the deal in the summer was that we were going to have to sell to buy, considering relegation. I'm also fairly sure he's well aware that we have well-paid internationals kicking their heels at the club and that in the wider world, clubs are all tightening their belts and having to meet FFP. I'm also pretty sure that he's aware it's one of the most expensively assembled squads in championship history and that he's already spent the best part of £50m. Do you think he's that naive?

That presumes that none of them knew the situation. Do you not think anyone involved might have asked the question when literally the manager himself repeated it over and over and over again, that we need to sell to buy?

Why, why do you care about potentially upsetting the player, who is likely to have understood the situation anyway. You do what’s right for the club. If you wait until a player goes, then you might be a player down and not have enough time to get the other player in. Get it all lined up and if the dominos fall then great. If they don’t then so be it, a bit of frustration all around but that’s life. Do you think most players and agents haven’t had all sorts of prospective transfers fall through previously? It’s football, especially when it’s a transfer near the final day.

They are defending it because lining up a deal was the right thing to do. And if it’s been clearly explained to the player and his agent what exactly is the problem? If he’s not bothered, why should you be bothered on his behalf. Even if he didn’t know, you do what’s right for the club and not the player. And the right thing to do was have a deal in the pipeline. I can’t believe people actually think not having a deal lined up would be preferable.

The point I’m making is that this isn’t a reaction to something not happening last night. I clearly stated days it might very well be the case we are lining things up just in case we sell, because it’s blindingly obvious that’s the prudent thing to do. Oh and the manager and the press had already stated we needed to sell to buy numerous times. It shouldn’t have come as a shock to anyone that we didn’t sign him when we didn’t actually sell anyone, unless they are being obtuse and ignoring what the manager has been saying.

The manager has continually stated in public that any deal would be dependent on someone being sold. The press here even before that said we needed to do the same. And people are now surprised that’s actually the case.

I said about three or four days ago that it’s prudent to line a deal up and not wait until the other part of the chain is compete. Because that way it might be too late and you’d all be sat here saying “we sold someone, why didn’t we bring anyone in with the money”. It’s not unprofessional in the slightest, it’s the smart thing to do. It might be frustrating for everyone concerned, but if it’s been explained to everyone, what exactly is the issue?

Why don’t you? You’ve heard about players sitting in airports or car parks on transfer deadline day for deals to not happen haven’t you. If we thought another deal on the cards to free the funds, why would you not progress the deal? They are adults, if he’s had it explained then perhaps he’s a more than willing participant.

And who put the manager in charge and helped him but the squad together to sit top of the table. You are cherry picking.

The club continues to fail, good lord…. We’ll ignore they appointed him, assembled a string squad quickly for him, that sits clear at the top of the league. Anyone being remotely realistic, including the manager knew this season was going to be a nightmare financially. The loss of revenues, players seeing our contracts, huge wages to pay and us absolutely needing to sell assets to get anywhere close to balancing the books. I’m baffled that everyone just seems to ignore all of that now.

Would he? Seems like he’s a bit green at this management stuff then.

What 4 players wages have we got rid of and how much were those deals, and how much was the deal for the player coming in? The Souttar thread is literally full of people saying not to strengthen a rival. And let’s be honest, we have no idea if the interest was real or what the deal was or whether it would even possibly get done considering he’s at the Asian cup.

Exactly, it’s not a bunch of children involved. They are all adults and can communicate the situation clearly to each other.

The man spent £50m+ in the summer and has one of if not the most expensively assembled squads ever in the league. If he’s thinking anything it should be how lucky he is to have been provided such a platform with zero track record.

You are missing the entire context of the conversation. The point was it’s worse to break ffp willingly than keeping within the limits.

You keep saying “you don’t do this” and you “don’t do that”. Why don’t you? What if it was clearly explained to the player that we need to sell to buy and we are hopeful of getting something done. So we are going to progress it as far as we can. Is it not prudent to have things lined up and ready to go? Honestly the hand wringing in this thread is actually laughable.

Because we could afford it if we sold someone, presuming it’s a finance issue. Would you prefer we don’t look or bid for players until a player is sold, or would you prefer a deal was ready to go, just in case we did sell someone.