Qwerty

So basically, we (and Burnley, Leeds, Southampton and Forest) wanted to case to be addressed asap, but were told no, it had to wait. It was therefore delayed to a season when the points deduction would have no real impact on Everton. It's hard not to see this as deliberate. Sadly I don't see how we can win compensation, because it's surely not possible to argue that both us and Burnley are entitled. If the points deduction occurred in the 20/21 season, it wouldn't have affected us. If it had occurred in the 22/23 season, it wouldn't have affected Burnley. So it's impossible to say we are both entitled to compensation based on the points deduction.

I can see what you’re saying - but “turning the other cheek” still seems bloody unfair, when they’ve taken the PL place and money that should have been (and would have been if they hadn’t cheated) ours. It’s hard to get past how unfair it is. And whilst Everton have been punished, the current sanction doesn’t help us (or Burnley), the victims, in any way at all. Which feels wrong to me. It’s like standing in a queue for a bus, and someone pushing in front of you, and getting the last seat. Their punishment might be having a seat without a nice view, but really I’d want them to give me some compensation money, so I could get a different bus, rather than walking home.

The ramifications of us and Burnley winning a compensation claim would be huge. Unfortunately I think, for this reason, we won’t win. It would open up the floodgates for multiple other claims, and set some precedents that the PL/FA couldn’t cope with.

I’m slightly confused on what grounds Leeds would sue. They would have been relegated last season anyway, even if Everton had had a 50 point reduction.

It really does feel like that doesn’t it

It can’t be proven that we would have stayed up. But I think the incredibly narrow margin (2 points between us an Everton, with us having a better goal difference) must surely mean that on the balance of probabilities, we would have finished above Everton if they hadn’t cheated. The law states that “The burden of proof is on the claimant, who must prove that on the balance of probabilities, his/her case is true. This means that the court must be satisfied that on the evidence, the occurrence of an event was more likely than not”. So whilst we can’t prove it would have made the crucial difference, I think we can prove that on the balance of probabilities it would have.

In any other season they’d be done for. But this season, Luton, Burnley and Sheffield probably won’t even get 30 points. Usually there’s 1, maybe 2 teams who are destined for relegation from the outset. This time there are 3. So Everton have nothing to fear, annoyingly.

I started out feeling really glad that Everton had been punished, but now I’m just frustrated that we didn’t do the same. If we’d cheated, bought players, broken FFP rules and had a 10 point deduction, we’d still be in the PL and be quite comfortable there too, in the same way Everton will be in a few weeks. I had a look at an Everton fan forum and they’re not worried at all.

Yep - it’s bloody unfair. They cheated, stayed up, got punished but ended up only a couple of points from safety in November - I bet they’re laughing.

I don’t know - I’m not sure that it was a guarantee they’d escape being relegation candidates this season. I knew Luton would struggle but I didn’t think Sheffield and Burnley would do as badly as they have done. So maybe it really is just lucky timing.

I don’t think it will be. But it won’t matter, because by then Luton, Sheffield and Burnley will already have been relegated.

Yes, that’s the thing - they cheated and managed to stay in the PL. And now they’ve been punished, but it happens to be in a season when there are 3 other dreadful teams who will certainly go down. So they gambled and got lucky. Which really pisses me off!

I'm amazed that people keep saying we can't prove that we'd have stayed up if Everton hadn't cheated, that we deserved to be relegated, that it's our own fault etc etc, and referring to specific games where we made mistakes and lost. The fact is, Everton cheated and we didn't. We both had crap cars with empty tanks, but they sneakily put some petrol in theirs and won the race. Surely that's more than a coincidence.

The reason behind our relegation was multi-factorial, and we would have to re-live last season in a parallel universe to know for certain if anything could have changed it. But I think that given Everton only needed to drop 2 points to be relegated, it’s reasonable to assume that their overspending made the crucial difference. And that crucial difference was one of the things that relegated us.

This is true, but in addition to signings, Everton were able to keep players on big salaries who might otherwise have moved on, given Everton’s poor performance in the last couple of seasons. So it’s not just about the new signings, it’s about keeping the good players that they had. I bet Pickford talked about going and was persuaded to stay £££££. One of the reasons we got relegated was lack of signings/keeping good players. I reckon just one extra player might have given us an extra 2 points, and that was all we needed to stay up.

Yes I think you’re right

Not sure. This is how it looks. Not sure what’s happening with WU1 and WU7 - they look different from the other sold-out blocks.

WL5 and 6 now open, probably about 100 seats left, so may get to members tomorrow . I’d have thought most STHs waiting for their slot (8am today) would have bought them by now.

Can anyone tell me how many seats are left? Thanks

How well are these selling? Hoping they get to all STHs.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I've been a STH for 5 years I think, maybe 6, and only have enough points for the "all STH" category of away tickets. Each year I get another 50 points but then the boundaries go up too, so I think I'll be stuck in the "all STH" category for ever. Can't get to away games to raise the points because I can't get tickets!

Thank you. I've always thought it just related to Liverpool constantly saying they were hard done by with referee decisions. Honestly never entered my head that it was about real life tragedy.

sorry to be dense but what was the chant that the Luton fans were singing?

It doesn't really matter does it. At the end of the day, we all clapped and we all took a moment to think about Vichai and Bobby, paid our respects, acknowledged them, and got on with the game. You can't expect to organise 32,000 people by making one statement in a noisy stadium.