AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

As I mentioned in the early days he told nazis exactly where to go. This included fighting with them when they showed up and burning a flag with a swastika on it. He didnt skirt the issue I've read a lot of claims about this particular case and it doesnt seem cut a dried to me. Wasnt convicted by a jury, dont know why, no law expert. You do see his followers defending him with statements that are ignorant of the facts but others less ignorant have made statements condemning the decision and i honestly dont know if its correct or not, but from what ive read im not sure. Your last paragraph is probably correct. I think he has made attempts to refine his act and clean it up, but as far as the public is concerned maybe there isnt much further for him to go I think if police and govt. had dealt better with certain issues, like the grooming gangs, there would even be a Tommy Robinson. Maybe he is more of a symptom than a cause of issues. The last thing we want is for feelings like that to foment and for someone/thing worse to follow.

In that Oxford Address he talks about how in the early days of the EDL they had fights with nazis, they didnt want nazis anywhere near their group. I think that kind of movement will inevitably attract certain types and it did, but I dont necessarily think that reflects upon him, especially when you see confrontation they had with nazis after first forming. But yeah, that kind of type was defo a problem around the EDL Regarding his money, he certainly wasnt doing it for money when he started out. As i understand it he now gets funding from right wingers in america and probably other places, think thats a consequence more than an initial motivation Regarding this latest conviction, i do see how it could be perceived as slightly contentious looking at the facts, but yeah, he's not a very sophisticated guy so that doesnt help when his whole platform and subject he talks about is so controversial, gets himself in trouble a lot, maybe thats on him

I didnt mean to say you suggested that. Was just adding a wee disclaimer to the statement i made He doesnt view other races as lesser. I beg you to watch the oxford union thing if interested, until i watched that i reckon my views on him were more or less based on headlines alone Obviously nobody wants to see large crowds gathered to denounce a religion, but I think its important to understand why they might feel inclined to do so. I kind of felt like i'd been a bit of a snob after learning more about it. I mean, Douglas Murray can go on telly and make erudite arguments criticising mass immigration and problems within the muslim community; TR reacting to those problems from a working class perspective is obviously going to produce something more crude and less pretty, maybe even something not helpful, but that doesnt mean there isnt a sincere and legitimate bone of contention that motivates him

Im not supporting him. I had an opinion of him probably the same as you. I will say that after watching his Oxford Union address on yt I see he is not the demon he's made out to be and at least see something of the conditions that created him. You may have watched that video and still have the same opinion, idk. Would recommend it if interested in understanding whats behind him, or what motivates him rather He might be wrong in what he does, but I dont think his aim is to divide and its not racist in nature

Great. All problems solved then

Think Alex Jones has spoken about it years ago

Aye, could be. Could be a little of both in the end

Nothing in particular tbh. I just kind of think we're either ****ed or we're not I suppose innovation rather than political agreements will drive change, so Trump pulling out of the Paris will not be such a big deal in the scheme of things Just my thoughts, no facts or articles for this one

Yes, they dont get carte blanche to do whatever they like, which is a good thing I personally doubt history will view him as an enemy of the environment, but i guess we'll see

I doubt that they believe all that stuff you're saying is a true characterisation of Trump as president

I just read a great article on this that I think you should read ( i did find and read that Hill article before finding this one, which demonstrates the Obama / Trump debate well and in a balanced manner). Its not really true that Trump changed the course of domestic terror policing https://www.lawfareblog.com/trumps-domestic-countering-violent-extremism-policies-look-lot-obamas They do offer the criticism that Trump's rhetoric inflames polarisation (though it seems to have inflamed the left more than the right imo), but is largely only rhetoric, and whilst i know his words arent pretty, they are a necessary and welcome reaction to PC culture perhaps after Trump's tenure has passed the symbol of his presidency will have done the job and things will settle down

Cheers. I heard on a Michael Knowles podcast that the US has reduced carbon emissions more than many countries still involved in the Paris Agreement (when i watched this i searched the net for corroboration of this and couldnt find any tbf, so no idea of its true). Like you say, its a pov, many have different perspectives on this debate Selling national parks for development doesnt sound good, and I would say nobody wants to see that, but would need to see details on it The abortion debate i was once unquestioningly on the pro choice side. But thats really an ideological position and I can see the other side of the argument (reading a few years ago of James Joyce thoughts on this gave me pause for thought as i respected him so much). Also, the pro choice side has its own extreme manifestations that i think many would disagree with. And besides, Trump ran saying he would do this, so its not him as such, but all those who voted for him you disagree with Personally im not sure where I stand on that debate fwiw Health systems is very complex and Im not clued up enough, but to be sure there are valid criticisms of the Affordable health care act? Our own NHS is probably going to have to be reformed and I never would have thougjt that once upon a time. But anyway that Act is fairly new so i dont think you can use it to say Trump is an historically bad outlier as a president I have never heard about that about the far right. Can you send me a link? That sounds unequivocally bad; but playing devil's advocate you could say Antifa are enabled and they go unpoliced. They have even espoused violence on tv! Its completely fair to criticise Trump, he will do bad things and make lots of mistakes, like they all do. I just think there is this narrative to demonise him that doesnt ring true with me That part about the far right violence and reducing funds to police them is definitely interesting though, will look it up

Thanks very much for clarifying Can you explain the things Trump is doing that are bad for minorities and why they are immoral specifically? I think this is the part im interested in because we hear it a lot

I find this an assumption My political views are primarily informed by Jack Kerouac and James Joyce

Hey, stop picking on me man I had to fend off accusations of being an apologist for pedopholia on here recently. There's plenty on here misconstruing opinions of others

Fair enough. Can you please clarify for me what you meant in the post where you said it must be demoralising for the man and if it wasnt for people like him then people like them wouldnt have the chance to come to the country? Nested in that comment I perceived the suggestion that you see a contradiction between supporting Trump and supporting immigration. I might be completely wrong about that, so thats why im asking, dont want to be Cathy Newman Maybe i dont get the point of that comment..?

Lol, shit thats quite an accusation, will have to reevaluate my approach

A very funny post and this going anywhere is it. No idea what you're saying about race tbh The crux of your point about those Trump supporters is that you think borders should be open and they shoud appreciate that they are also not from the US. You want to dissolve the line between legal and illegal immigrants Bad idea imo

Whats that factual policy this administration enacts again? The one that differs a lot from anything Obama's enacted

All your points are based on faulty assumptions, about racist politics that Trump is the source of. You 100% imply they dont know what they're doing if you say they support a man who is antithetical to their existence in the country. Thats simply the logic of your statement love They are immigrants celebrating a country that welcomed them and in which they have thrived, going through a protracted process. Why should they be happy about illegal immigranfs cutting a line they were once in? You've ignored the thrust of that point because its impossible for you to view Trump politics as anything but racist And like it or not you whitewash over their politics completely in favour of orange man bad pov My gf's friend said it took them 15 years to apply for a visa to live in America. Its a massive ballache to get permission to live in other countries, of course its perfectly reasonable to be a little miffed when others stroll in in their thousands (and they are not refugees) And yes, they were talking. Did you not listen? One man said he is fromTexas and people should see whats happening in El Paso and that the wall is what they believe they need etc. (The wall is a symbol more than anything) I enjoyed how you gave men like that old man credit for the concept of accepting immigrants, in America! Dont know what race you are btw buddy so dont get your joke im afraid. Im perfectly relaxed if my points seem to be aggressive i honestly believe its only because yours are so soft in the bladdy head, said with love x

I think its condescensing of you to assume they dont know who they are supporting They're Vietnamese Americans. Doesnt mean they're stupid. They spoke about political issues and of why they like Trump, with passion. They spoke of being legal immigrants and not wanting illegal immigration. They spoke about Trump's tough stance policy on China and that chimed in with my Vietnamese missus' view of China. If you know Vietnamese people i think there is a good chance you will know they are aware of the looming tyranny of China and appreciate Trump's rhetoric on the matter The old white guy just held up a sign with a meaningless slogan and professed his confusion. You ignore all of that because you and that old white guy have bought into a narrative that Trump is racist and hates immigrants, to be frank When a bunch of immigrant people of colour support Trump, you say they dont know what they're doing. That is actually racist. I know that last paragraph is harsh, and you are not a racist person, but honestly its maddening. Some of you knee jerk Trump haters need to be questioning just a little bit how you perceice him. Try to see the other point of view

He didnt know what to think

This is quite sweet

Here's an American with a different view if interested

I think you are oversimplifying things a lot And assuming you are morally better than anyone with different views to you, completely unabashedly