People in Leicester are the poorest in the country

[leicsmac]

Because they are the biggest two shitholes I have been too, don't give me the attitude of 'the question is rhetorical' when it clearly isn't or tell me you know exactly why I said those two cities, many factors contribute to it, at least have the balls to accuse me of being racist instead of just insinuating it if you want to go down that road, I don't have to pretend anything anymore after the election results last month. You still do.

 

As for your last line, you can have as much big business investing as you want but if people don't want to work things won't get better, but you hate the protestent work ethic so I don't ever expect you to understand that.

 

Yeah, I made that personal and snide when I shouldn't have done. My apologies.

 

Having seen a bit of the UK though there are several different shitholes that could be chosen and while race is a factor it's nowhere near the largest one. I think the map that davieG showed was pretty telling as far as unemployment rates go...there's so many communities in the north that are struggling. I hope that a Tory government will try to help shore up these areas and get more people into work there, if they can.

 

I despise the Protestant Work Ethic from the point of view that people should work to live rather than living to work (and that ethic symbolises that), or at least have the choice available. Life's way too short to be spending it stuck somewhere you'd rather not be purely for the purpose of keeping your head above water money-wise. That being said, I have very short shrift for people that don't contribute at all so I'd be in favour of greater incentives (perhaps a "three reasonable offers and sanction" approach?) from Job Centres. There's a world of difference between those actively seeking work and those deliberately shying away from it, and greater effort of distinction needs to be put between the two. I also think the proportion of the latter to the former is massively overegged by the media.

 

As for the overall matter, giving encouragement to people to get into work to make money and regenerate an area is pretty much all that can be done, and in most cases that is going to involved private enterprises coming in. What more can we do? 

[MrSpaM]

Doesn't surprise me one bit tbh, business' in Leicester seem to get away with paying people peanuts compared to other cities in the area

[Guest MattP]

Yeah, I made that personal and snide when I shouldn't have done. My apologies.

 

Having seen a bit of the UK though there are several different shitholes that could be chosen and while race is a factor it's nowhere near the largest one. I think the map that davieG showed was pretty telling as far as unemployment rates go...there's so many communities in the north that are struggling. I hope that a Tory government will try to help shore up these areas and get more people into work there, if they can.

 

I despise the Protestant Work Ethic from the point of view that people should work to live rather than living to work (and that ethic symbolises that), or at least have the choice available. Life's way too short to be spending it stuck somewhere you'd rather not be purely for the purpose of keeping your head above water money-wise. That being said, I have very short shrift for people that don't contribute at all so I'd be in favour of greater incentives (perhaps a "three reasonable offers and sanction" approach?) from Job Centres. There's a world of difference between those actively seeking work and those deliberately shying away from it, and greater effort of distinction needs to be put between the two. I also think the proportion of the latter to the former is massively overegged by the media.

 

As for the overall matter, giving encouragement to people to get into work to make money and regenerate an area is pretty much all that can be done, and in most cases that is going to involved private enterprises coming in. What more can we do? 

 

Apology accepted.

 

I said the two biggest holes that came to mind were the two I said and that was that, I'm not going to start thinking about being politically correct when I speak on here in not naming crap towns just in case I offend someone as one of them has had a high proportion of immigration.

 

I disagree by the way with your view people work to live, I think you make a choice on that yourself, again I put it down to personal responsibility rather than blaming others for the problems people have, I'm now looking for work and I'm not instantly being attracted to how much money I'm going to be paid, I'm very happy to do something for a little less if it means a little less responsibility as long as it gives me the time to enjoy what I do and the things I enjoy I think I'll be very happy, if you work to live then change your ways or work even harder to put it right.

 

The problem with the accusation the media over exaggerates these people are that the ones doing this have been proven wrong over and over again, we were told by people from your side ten years ago these people living on benefits as a lifestyle didn't have Sky/Phones etc and it was proven wrong, we've had over ten years of Jeremy Kyle now and they don't seem to be struggling for guests, it's clearly a massove problem and if anything I felt it was underplayed for far too long by those seeking to use it for their own political purpose.

[leicsmac]

Apology accepted.

 

I said the two biggest holes that came to mind were the two I said and that was that, I'm not going to start thinking about being politically correct when I speak on here in not naming crap towns just in case I offend someone as one of them has had a high proportion of immigration.

 

I disagree by the way with your view people work to live, I think you make a choice on that yourself, again I put it down to personal responsibility rather than blaming others for the problems people have, I'm now looking for work and I'm not instantly being attracted to how much money I'm going to be paid, I'm very happy to do something for a little less if it means a little less responsibility as long as it gives me the time to enjoy what I do and the things I enjoy I think I'll be very happy, if you work to live then change your ways or work even harder to put it right.

 

The problem with the accusation the media over exaggerates these people are that the ones doing this have been proven wrong over and over again, we were told by people from your side ten years ago these people living on benefits as a lifestyle didn't have Sky/Phones etc and it was proven wrong, we've had over ten years of Jeremy Kyle now and they don't seem to be struggling for guests, it's clearly a massove problem and if anything I felt it was underplayed for far too long by those seeking to use it for their own political purpose.

 

Fair enough on the first point.

 

I think that's a pretty key difference in the way that we think - you believe that personal responsibility and choice is something available to everyone, I think that I would like that to be the case but in practice (due to people actively or passively inhibiting those choices for others) it's simply not true. We're fortunate enough to have a much greater scope of choice regarding our lives than many other people, some of whom have hardly any choice about how and where they work (or if there is a choice, it's illusory in that none of the options are good). It's not as massive an issue in the UK as it is elsewhere around the world (that's pretty obvious to both of us as we've travelled), but it still does exist. So we can't really apply our own life experiences and options to everyone else as a result because of that difference. Of course, you think otherwise on that.

 

Regarding the benefit issue, it's pretty self evident that there are a lot of people out there gaming the system (as you said, the fact that Jeremy Kyle is still going speaks for itself), but I would still maintain that they are a minority by comparison to the number of benefit claimants as a whole, and that certain sections of the media do like to overstate it (though, other branches of the media probably understate it too). And while the welfare system in this country does need to be policed more effectively as a result, that shouldn't be at the expense of legitimate claimants who are actively looking for work. A more targeted approach is needed. Sniping, not carpet bombing.

[davieG]

it doesn't help that the government and institutions like the BBC (http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/BBC-short-changing-East-Midlands/story-26590096-detail/story.html) spend so little in the East Midlands and Leicester probably more so than Nottingham.

[bovril]

Rotherham makes Luton look like Shangri-La. Last time I was there I felt like I was in 'Chernobyl Diaries'.