Council tax rises yet again .. 5% this year !!!

[davieG]

7 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Interesting. So what do you think is the better alternative to having councils being able to raise their council tax rates based on local demand? 

It depends on where you think services like social care etc should be funded, nationally = increased income tax or locally = increased council tax.

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Interesting. So what do you think is the better alternative to having councils being able to raise their council tax rates based on local demand? 

 

Where has he said that? 

 

He's said he has no problem with what the councils are doing, he just wishes central government would take more ownership of the cuts. 

 

Instead they often do the opposite. 

 

Example: housing services across local authorities in England are having to cut down on services they provide to social tenants, leaseholders on council land, the homeless, rough sleepers and Lord knows who else and to try and save some of those, your council tax goes up (not that housing is the only thing a council does, its just my area of expertise.)

 

This is happening because central government decided to blow their trumpets and pretend they care about poor people by reducing the rent of all council tenants nation wide by 1%. It's a completely shallow, cynical attempt at self promotion whilst ACTUALLY stealthily giving less money to local authorities given that most of that rent came from benefits, not tenants own earnings. 

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I suppose you have to applaud the intelligence of it but it's immensely unethical at the same time and that's exactly what toddy is complaining about - central government putting their hands up, going "don't look at us!" when local authorities hike their tax despite the fact its all come from central government in the first place. 

[Innovindil]

45 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Where has he said that? 

 

He's said he has no problem with what the councils are doing, he just wishes central government would take more ownership of the cuts. 

 

Instead they often do the opposite. 

 

Example: housing services across local authorities in England are having to cut down on services they provide to social tenants, leaseholders on council land, the homeless, rough sleepers and Lord knows who else and to try and save some of those, your council tax goes up (not that housing is the only thing a council does, its just my area of expertise.)

 

This is happening because central government decided to blow their trumpets and pretend they care about poor people by reducing the rent of all council tenants nation wide by 1%. It's a completely shallow, cynical attempt at self promotion whilst ACTUALLY stealthily giving less money to local authorities given that most of that rent came from benefits, not tenants own earnings. 

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I suppose you have to applaud the intelligence of it but it's immensely unethical at the same time and that's exactly what toddy is complaining about - central government putting their hands up, going "don't look at us!" when local authorities hike their tax despite the fact its all come from central government in the first place. 

Okay, so same question to you. If the tories come out and say we're bad bad people it's all our fault, then this way of increasing taxes is acceptable? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Interesting. So what do you think is the better alternative to having councils being able to raise their council tax rates based on local demand? 

You seem to be continuing to misinterpret my every post. I'm not wasting any more time on you.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Okay, so same question to you. If the tories come out and say we're bad bad people it's all our fault, then this way of increasing taxes is acceptable? 

If they front it up of course it is acceptable.

Whether it's the best way is a different question but it isn't fundamentally unacceptable.

They'd be better off borrowing centrally though until wages start rising as they can borrow at record low interest rates and tax rises will have knock on effects for already record high personal debt and the quality of life squeeze.

I'd also want to know what 'based on local need' actually looks like in terms of relative cost. Is it right that one place with an older demographic sees their younger adults paying larger rises than places with younger demographics? Is isn't often the purple using the services that are paying the taxes so would indiscriminate national taxation be better?

These are better questions than the rather daft ones you've been asking.

Edited 8 March 2018 by Guest

[Finnegan]

36 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Okay, so same question to you. If the tories come out and say we're bad bad people it's all our fault, then this way of increasing taxes is acceptable? 

 

That's really two separate issues. 

 

1. Should taxes be increased to provide better public services? 

 

2. Should political parties, especially ruling parties, be more transparent and take more ownership of their dealings?

 

The answer to the latter is definitely a resounding yes but it would be unfair to suggest the Tories are uniquely culpable here. Every party spins the truth for public image, they all want to be re-elected don't they? It'd certainly help if they took more public responsibility for council tax hikes but it's probably more beneficial for them to let you keep blaming your local labour council and a ruling Labour government would obviously do the complete reverse. 

 

The first point? I'd personally like a world where we heartily slash the defence budget, increase corporation tax and can redistribute money to things like homelessness prevention without having to tax the working and middle classes more. 

 

But back in the real world, do I support a marginal increase in my council tax bill to enable the council to keep providing services and improving the city centre? Yeah I think so. 

 

A lot of people moan about "the council" without having a ****ing clue what the council do or how much they need them to be fair. 

Edited 8 March 2018 by Finnegan

[Innovindil]

48 minutes ago, toddybad said:

If they front it up of course it is acceptable.

Whether it's the best way is a different question but it isn't fundamentally unacceptable.

They'd be better off borrowing centrally though until wages start rising as they can borrow at record low interest rates and tax rises will have knock on effects for already record high personal debt and the quality of life squeeze.

I'd also want to know what 'based on local need' actually looks like in terms of relative cost. Is it right that one place with an older demographic sees their younger adults paying larger rises than places with younger demographics? Is isn't often the purple using the services that are paying the taxes so would indiscriminate national taxation be better?

These are better questions than the rather daft ones you've been asking.

One post to tell me you're not speaking to me anymore. A second post to answer my first quoted question on what do you think is a better way to raise the cash. 

 

Excellent stuff. 

 

38 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

That's really two separate issues. 

 

1. Should taxes be increased to provide better public services? 

 

2. Should political parties, especially ruling parties, be more transparent and take more ownership of their dealings?

 

The answer to the latter is definitely a resounding yes but it would be unfair to suggest the Tories are uniquely culpable here. Every party spins the truth for public image, they all want to be re-elected don't they? It'd certainly help if they took more public responsibility for council tax hikes but it's probably more beneficial for them to let you keep blaming your local labour council and a ruling Labour government would obviously do the complete reverse. 

 

The first point? I'd personally like a world where we heartily slash the defence budget, increase corporation tax and can redistribute money to things like homelessness prevention without having to tax the working and middle classes more. 

 

But back in the real world, do I support a marginal increase in my council tax bill to enable the council to keep providing services and improving the city centre? Yeah I think so. 

 

A lot of people moan about "the council" without having a ****ing clue what the council do or how much they need them to be fair. 

I agree, at least to the real world part. Good stuff and thanks for the reply.