Gamesmaster Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 Why? So we can be more like the Scottish people are? No thanks. So we can dictate as countrymen/women, the kind of society we wish to live in. If jonny foreigner wants to come to our wonderfull country, then they learn to respect us more and not take us for granted.
Gamesmaster Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 I think everybody holds some sort of racsist views, its just they chose not to see them as racsist. its racist, to believe in a specific, characteristic, ability or policy, of a group of people with a common feature. us foxestalk posters are a group of people with a common feature.
Head Honcho Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 It's the culture I'm attacking. I note that you yourself seem unwilling or unable to defend Scotland's chauvanistic, insular, parochial, violent and racist culture, so perhaps I have a point? If you think that attacking a countries culture isn't racist then you really are deluded. I can't defend the nation as a whole same as I can't defend England has a whole so it would be ridiculous for me to do so.
Lemon Harpic Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 If you think that attacking a countries culture isn't racist then you really are deluded. Perhaps you should look 'racism' up in a dictionary? Saying "all Scots are alcoholic wifebeaters" would be close to racism (technically, the Scots do not constitute a race) Saying "mainstream Scottish culture tolerates, and to a certain extent encourages, domestic abuse and alcoholism" is not racism. If a culture is violent, misogynistic, racist or whatever, then it should not be above criticism. Stop trying to shut down valid debate by crying racism. It's a pathetic tactic, and I won't let it prevail.
Daggers Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 Saying "all Scots are alcoholic wifebeaters" would be close to racism (technically, the Scots do not constitute a race) Saying "mainstream Scottish culture tolerates, and to a certain extent encourages, domestic abuse and alcoholism" is not racism. LH, How would you describe this then? Scotland is an insular, parochial and racist hellhole, full of violent halfwits who detest the English. Sounds like a racist bag of shite to me...there's fukc all about "culture" going on in your intial post
Head Honcho Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 Perhaps you should look 'racism' up in a dictionary? Saying "all Scots are alcoholic wifebeaters" would be close to racism (technically, the Scots do not constitute a race) Saying "mainstream Scottish culture tolerates, and to a certain extent encourages, domestic abuse and alcoholism" is not racism. If a culture is violent, misogynistic, racist or whatever, then it should not be above criticism. Stop trying to shut down valid debate by crying racism. It's a pathetic tactic, and I won't let it prevail. So if I was to say "Iraq is an insular, parochial and racist hellhole, full of violent halfwits who detest the English" That wouldn't be racist?
Lemon Harpic Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 LH, How would you describe this then? A metonymy. Scotland itself isn't insular, parochial and racist. It's just a landmass. However, as the Scottish Executive study shows, far too many Scottish people have racist attitudes. Petty see-no-evil nationalism and hysterical misplaced allegations of anti-Scottish racism do nothing to help the situation.
Lemon Harpic Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 So if I was to say "Iraq is an insular, parochial and racist hellhole, full of violent halfwits who detest the English" That wouldn't be racist? It would be pretty much spot-on.
Daggers Posted 23 June 2006 Posted 23 June 2006 A metonymy. ...or as we normal folk call it - a stereotype. Colour it any way you want. Your choice of language is offensive, your tone aggressive and your defensive posturing colours your point. As I said, you have points to make but the manner in which you are doing it will make you no friends or converts.
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 24 June 2006 Posted 24 June 2006 Amazing. Rangers - psychopath I never thought I'd see those words feature in the same article Tsk tsk... this is why people should follow the mighty Celtic! Will you march with O'Neill, to an Irish Battlefield? For tonight were going to free old Wexford town!
Lemon Harpic Posted 24 June 2006 Posted 24 June 2006 ...or as we normal folk call it - a stereotype. Colour it any way you want. Your choice of language is offensive, your tone aggressive and your defensive posturing colours your point. As I said, you have points to make but the manner in which you are doing it will make you no friends or converts. I realize it's old-fashioned, but I've always valued content over style. And, apart from Davie G's ever-so-scientific "none of my Scottish mates are racist, so it can't be that big a problem" (hopefully we are all intelligent enough to see the flaw in that logic), nobody has disputed the content of the link that shows in cold, hard facts that racist attitudes are still flourishing in Scotland. I would suggest that Scotland's endemic racism problem is related to it's small-minded nationalistic outlook. Fear of being seen as unpatriotic is presumably what has stopped Allen from admitting Scotland has a problem even when faced with the facts and figures. I don't want England to become a place where people feel compelled to brush problems like racism under the carpet. I don't want England to fall into the same trap as Scotland. If we keep waving St Georges flag and blame all our problems on 'Johnny Foreigner', that's exactly what will happen.
davieG Posted 24 June 2006 Posted 24 June 2006 I realize it's old-fashioned, but I've always valued content over style. And, apart from Davie G's ever-so-scientific "none of my Scottish mates are racist, so it can't be that big a problem" (hopefully we are all intelligent enough to see the flaw in that logic), nobody has disputed the content of the link that shows in cold, hard facts that racist attitudes are still flourishing in Scotland. I would suggest that Scotland's endemic racism problem is related to it's small-minded nationalistic outlook. Fear of being seen as unpatriotic is presumably what has stopped Allen from admitting Scotland has a problem even when faced with the facts and figures. I don't want England to become a place where people feel compelled to brush problems like racism under the carpet. I don't want England to fall into the same trap as Scotland. If we keep waving St Georges flag and blame all our problems on 'Johnny Foreigner', that's exactly what will happen. Taking statements out of context and making snide remarks does you as big a diservice as your generalisations. My comment you quote as "none of my Scottish mates are racist" were not my words and therefore have no substance and therefore your logic argument is in fact illogical. In fact as much as you like to twist things to make your point my comments referred to every Scottish person I'd met and was stated in response to your "populated by violent, racist, sectarian, alcoholic wifebeaters" as you well know and was not intended or implied as being scientific. It was purely to show that considering you believe the place was 'populated' that I just might have come across someone who matches your description. If I was you I'd stop digging because the hole you''ve made for yourself by your generalisation through the use of the word 'populated' will only get bigger.
Lemon Harpic Posted 24 June 2006 Posted 24 June 2006 Taking statements out of context and making snide remarks does you as big a diservice as your generalisations. My comment you quote as "none of my Scottish mates are racist" were not my words and therefore have no substance and therefore your logic argument is in fact illogical. In fact as much as you like to twist things to make your point my comments referred to every Scottish person I'd met and was stated in response to your "populated by violent, racist, sectarian, alcoholic wifebeaters" as you well know and was not intended or implied as being scientific. It was purely to show that considering you believe the place was 'populated' that I just might have come across someone who matches your description. If I was you I'd stop digging because the hole you''ve made for yourself by your generalisation through the use of the word 'populated' will only get bigger. I didn't say entirely populated... But, as the Scottish Executive study shows, racism is a significant problem in Scotland. I don't see what you hope to acheive by glossing over that fact. The questions we should ask ourselves is why is there so much racism in Scotland? How can we avoid ending up in a country every bit as racist as Scotland is? What lessons are there for us? These are important questions. I have no idea why so many people here would seemingly rather chew off their own arms than admit that Scotland has issues. Perhaps examining Scottish racism raises uncomfortable truths about the direction England is taking?
Ultra Posted 24 June 2006 Posted 24 June 2006 ... the country is populated by violent, racist, sectarian, alcoholic wifebeaters. .... riven with deep-seated social problems, problems it refuses to face up to instead hiding behind small-minded nationalism and a retarded blame-everything-on-the-English attitude. It's pathetic. Substitute "asylum-seekers" for "English" in the passage above and you could be talking about somewhere even closer to home...
DanTheFoxBhoy Posted 25 June 2006 Posted 25 June 2006 The truth is much different, the country is populated by violent, racist, sectarian, alcoholic wifebeaters. That is the reality of Scottish life. If there is a racist attitude towards the English in Scotland, it's because of stupid attitudes like that. Nationalism worked for many English to be belligerent towards Celts for 800 years, and now that it's been turned around both sides need to work hard to root out the problem. Both sides, which means allegations like that shouldn't be idly thrown around.
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