Racist attacks on England fans

[macbeth]

but why did the swiss vote that only scotsmen could run switzerland thats what i find weird

i'm really only joking ; it was the way your original proposal was worded

[Head Honcho]

but why did the swiss vote that only scotsmen could run switzerland thats what i find weird

i'm really only joking ; it was the way your orinal proposal was worded

They didn't, I can see this is going to take a lot of explaining. Over to you Thracian

..........and good luck

I bet you were!!

[macbeth]

They didn't, I can see this is going to take a lot of explaining. Over to you Thracian

..........and good luck

I bet you were!!

sorry if the humour was lost ........ just read the original proposal

of course i knew what he meant; he is the very embodiment of clarity ;

[Thracian]

What's that got to do with anything? That could apply to any country.

The reason for why there are so many Scots in high office at Westminster is simple, they are part of an elected government and have been deemed the most suitable for the job and should the public choose to vote them out at the next election they have the right to do so.

There's nothing stopping an Englishman being in the Scottish Parliament, I'd be surprised if there isn't one but if they don't step up to the plate, don't blame the people of Scotland for not electing them.

What has it got to do with anything? I thought you suggested that Lemon Harpic's view of the Scots as "insular, parochial, racist ... was wrong.

I just suggested it would be interesting to put the question to the test. Not a Tony Blair type referendum where he has to know the outcome beforehand but a genuine free vote - could you ever imagine such democracy!

Ironically I originally included a paragraph about how the English would vote on the notion of only Englishmen running England but deleted it as being slightly off topic.

[Lemon Harpic]

I thought you'd be the last person to be coming out with crap like this.

That statement is no different to saying that all Muslims are terrorist and I'd expect a bit better from you matey

There may be a handful of Scottish individuals who are not completely insular, parochial and racist, but as a country racism is still flourishing in Scotland.

This is something your country still has serious problems with, and it's time to stop sweeping it under the carpet.

[Head Honcho]

What has it got to do with anything? I thought you suggested that Lemon Harpic's view of the Scots as "insular, parochial, racist ... was wrong.

I just suggested it would be interesting to put the question to the test. Not a Tony Blair type referendum where he has to know the outcome beforehand but a genuine free vote - could you ever imagine such democracy!

Ironically I originally included a paragraph about how the English would vote on the notion of only Englishmen running England but deleted it as being slightly off topic.

I know what your trying to say, but that question could be asked to the residents of any country, not just Scotland.

The outcome of the vote would be the same in every country I guess.

[Head Honcho]

There may be a handful of Scottish individuals who are not completely insular, parochial and racist, but as a country racism is still flourishing in Scotland.

This is something your country still has serious problems with, and it's time to stop sweeping it under the carpet.

I'm certainly not trying to sweep it under the carpet but is lowering yourself to their level the answer?

[Bert]

Whoever does this are just plain scum imo.

However, the "national anthem" we(England) use at our football matches is not an English one and probably causes offence to other Birtish people.

[Gamesmaster]

You got it

I'm disappointed more than anything,.

It seems that it's ok to have a pop at the Scots and for it to be treated as a joke (which I'm sure in most cases it is).

Yet someone the other day got upset because the word Chinky was used when referring to a chinese meal

That someone, and people like them got and get upset, because we allowed new labour to let them get away with getting upset via PC.

i wonder how long we'll stand for it, before doing SOMETHING about it???

[Dellyjo]

Scotland is an insular, parochial and racist hellhole, full of violent halfwits who detest the English.

The victims both lived in Scotland long enough to know this.

I'm not saying that they deserved to be attacked, but they must have been aware that wearing the three lions put them at risk of this sort of thing.

Have you been to Scotland? I've been in Aberdeen for almost 18 months & apart from some banter, I have not encountered any problems. Of course there is the odd t^at as there is anywhere & the two attacks mentioned are shocking. Why is it that we are not allowed to wear our shirts with pride outside of our country & be proud of our nation? The Scots/Irish/Welsh would not be attacked for wearing theirs in England.

[Gamesmaster]

Have you been to Scotland? I've been in Aberdeen for almost 18 months & apart from some banter, I have not encountered any problems. Of course there is the odd t^at as there is anywhere & the two attacks mentioned are shocking. Why is it that we are not allowed to wear our shirts with pride outside of our country & be proud of our nation? The Scots/Irish/Welsh would not be attacked for wearing theirs in England.

Maybe we English should reclaim our country from the genorous welcome we gave to foreigners?

[Lemon Harpic]

Have you been to Scotland?

Obviously.

Most English people who have never been to Scotland think of it as a nice place, with mountains and shortbread and all the men wear kilts and toss their cabers.

The truth is much different, the country is populated by violent, racist, sectarian, alcoholic wifebeaters. That is the reality of Scottish life. Scotland is a country riven with deep-seated social problems, problems it refuses to face up to instead hiding behind small-minded nationalism and a retarded blame-everything-on-the-English attitude. It's pathetic.

Many English people look to the Scots as an example of how people can show pride in their country. I think this is a mistake. If we follow Scotland's example then we too will wake up one day to find ourselves living in an insular, parochial and racist hellhole. We have to strive to ensure that doesn't happen to us.

[Lemon Harpic]

Maybe we English should reclaim our country from the genorous welcome we gave to foreigners?

Why? So we can be more like the Scottish people are?

No thanks.

[Head Honcho]

Why? So we can be more like the Scottish people are?

No thanks.

Seems like it's ok to be racist when it suits you Harpic.

Your attitude towards Scotland and it's people really does blow holes into the anti-racism views you claim to support!!

[Strokes]

Seems like it's ok to be racist when it suits you Harpic.

Your attitude towards Scotland and it's people really does blow holes into the anti-racism views you claim to support!!

I think everybody holds some sort of racsist views, its just they chose not to see them as racsist.

[Lemon Harpic]

Seems like it's ok to be racist when it suits you Harpic.

Your attitude towards Scotland and it's people really does blow holes into the anti-racism views you claim to support!!

It's not racism, merely a distaste for a culture which is small-minded, insular, parochial and racist.

Scotland has deep-seated problems, and these problems are not going to go away by waving a saltire around and crying 'racist' at anyone who criticises petty nationalism.

I'm proud that England gives a generous welcome to foreigners. If there was ever a study that showed that racist attitudes were flourishing in England just as easily as they are north of the border, I would feel nothing but disgust and shame.

I wouldn't try to deflect valid criticism by calling somebody else a racist.

[Lemon Harpic]

I think everybody holds some sort of racsist views, its just they chose not to see them as racsist.

I don't agree.

I'm being attacked for calling a spade a spade. What am I supposed to say? That Scotland doesn't have a problem with racism, sectarianism, domestic violence or alcohol abuse? That there are no small-minded bigots north of the border. I'd love to be able to say that but it is not borne out by the facts.

[Daggers]

Have you been to Scotland? I've been in Aberdeen for almost 18 months & apart from some banter, I have not encountered any problems.

Ain't that the truth Dellyjo

People conveniently forget examples of disgraceful behaviour carried out by England "fans".

Here we have two examples of idiots doing something reprehensible. What about all of the Portuguese that feared for their lives across the country after we were dumped out of Euro04? Shops attacked, people assaulted - and the worst was the pub that was stormed by a marauding mob.

How about the fuknuts that smashed up town centres the length and breadth of the country after every England game of the 2002 World Cup?

This xenophobic behaviour is whipped up by the media, spouting right-wing phrases in the spirit of 'humour' ... which all too soon is turned into something far more hate filled.

We English [of whatever generational heritage] are no better nor worse than the Scots - or any other nationality. We are all just people - it's just that a large number of us seem to have a pre-pubescant problem with this.

If your dick is too small, if you have problems with sex, if people laugh at you in public because you are a bit of a willy puller then tough shit, but stop trying to cover it up with the mindless racist hate-fuelled bollocks that seems to be appearing all too frequently on FT.

</rant>

[Daggers]

I think everybody holds some sort of racsist views, its just they chose not to see them as racsist.

Horseshit, BNP boy. Speak for yourself.

[davieG]

Obviously.

Most English people who have never been to Scotland think of it as a nice place, with mountains and shortbread and all the men wear kilts and toss their cabers.

The truth is much different, the country is populated by violent, racist, sectarian, alcoholic wifebeaters. That is the reality of Scottish life. Scotland is a country riven with deep-seated social problems, problems it refuses to face up to instead hiding behind small-minded nationalism and a retarded blame-everything-on-the-English attitude. It's pathetic.

Many English people look to the Scots as an example of how people can show pride in their country. I think this is a mistake. If we follow Scotland's example then we too will wake up one day to find ourselves living in an insular, parochial and racist hellhole. We have to strive to ensure that doesn't happen to us.

I'm fortunate to have met & known many Scots in my life time and none of them are anything like your description. On the whole I've found them to be generous, good humour and very supportive.

I think you are the one with the problem.

[Head Honcho]

It's not racism, merely a distaste for a culture which is small-minded, insular, parochial and racist.

Scotland has deep-seated problems, and these problems are not going to go away by waving a saltire around and crying 'racist' at anyone who criticises petty nationalism.

I'm proud that England gives a generous welcome to foreigners. If there was ever a study that showed that racist attitudes were flourishing in England just as easily as they are north of the border, I would feel nothing but disgust and shame.

I wouldn't try to deflect valid criticism by calling somebody else a racist.

Don't kid yourself.

You've fallen into the trap that a lot of the "I'm not racist but" people fall into.

Admit it you have a dislike for the Scots and are therefore by definition racist.

[Lemon Harpic]

Don't kid yourself.

You've fallen into the trap that a lot of the "I'm not racist but" people fall into.

Admit it you have a dislike for the Scots and are therefore by definition racist.

It's the culture I'm attacking. I note that you yourself seem unwilling or unable to defend Scotland's chauvanistic, insular, parochial, violent and racist culture, so perhaps I have a point?

[Lemon Harpic]

I'm fortunate to have met & known many Scots in my life time and none of them are anything like your description. On the whole I've found them to be generous, good humour and very supportive.

I think you are the one with the problem.

In the film 'Men in Black' Tommy Lee Jones tells Will Smith "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

In a similar vein, I have never claimed that there aren't Scottish people who are intelligent, tolerant and open-minded. As a country, however, Scotland is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too insular, parochial and racist. Did nobody read the link I posted earlier in this thread?

If I have a problem, then it is that I am unwilling to be cowed by Englishmen ignorant of the scale of the problem and flag-waving see-no-evil Scots. My problem is that I shine a spotlight on things that other people would rather keep quiet. My problem is that I don't believe in fairy tales.

And Scotland-doesn't-have-any-problems is the biggest fairy tale of all.

Wake up.

[davieG]

In the film 'Men in Black' Tommy Lee Jones tells Will Smith "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

In a similar vein, I have never claimed that there aren't Scottish people who are intelligent, tolerant and open-minded. As a country, however, Scotland is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too insular, parochial and racist. Did nobody read the link I posted earlier in this thread?

If I have a problem, then it is that I am unwilling to be cowed by Englishmen ignorant of the scale of the problem and flag-waving see-no-evil Scots. My problem is that I shine a spotlight on things that other people would rather keep quiet. My problem is that I don't believe in fairy tales.

And Scotland-doesn't-have-any-problems is the biggest fairy tale of all.

Wake up.

Nobody say's it doesn't have problems but to say "the country is populated by violent, racist, sectarian, alcoholic wifebeaters" implies at best, a significant number and at worse a vast majority. That to me implies that you have facts to support that implication or you are just plain prejudice. Also by that token somewhere amongst the many Scots I've met/known and I've visted the place I would have come across at least one.

Is your statement any different to saying the muslims are populated with terrorists, or that England is populated by football hooligans, or that asylum seekers are populated by spongers etc.

[Daggers]

Nobody say's it doesn't have problems but to say "the country is populated by violent, racist, sectarian, alcoholic wifebeaters" implies at best, a significant number and at worse a vast majority. That to me implies that you have facts to support that implication or you are just plain prejudice. Also by that token somewhere amongst the many Scots I've met/known and I've visted the place I would have come across at least one.

Is your statement any different to saying the muslims are populated with terrorists, or that England is populated by football hooligans, or that asylum seekers are populated by spongers etc.

In the film 'Men in Black' Tommy Lee Jones tells Will Smith "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

In a similar vein, I have never claimed that there aren't Scottish people who are intelligent, tolerant and open-minded. As a country, however, Scotland is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too insular, parochial and racist. Did nobody read the link I posted earlier in this thread?

If I have a problem, then it is that I am unwilling to be cowed by Englishmen ignorant of the scale of the problem and flag-waving see-no-evil Scots. My problem is that I shine a spotlight on things that other people would rather keep quiet. My problem is that I don't believe in fairy tales.

And Scotland-doesn't-have-any-problems is the biggest fairy tale of all.

Wake up.

If you have a problem then it is your use of aggressive catch-all terms that means no one is going to see past the evident abuse in your post. If you wish to convey your message, and I believe that you have valid points to present and debate, then I think you should cho-cho-chose your words a bit more carefully.

As I said in one of my previous posts - all countries, all nationalities have problems that need to be addressed. If you go at it like a bull in a china shop you'll not be convincing anyone in a hurry...bar the stoopid xenophobes on the list.