Stevie Dawson

[Ric Flair]

I just don't buy in to this experience thing anymore, a few years ago I would say it's essential that your team has alot of experience for you to succeed. After watching some truely disgusting performances over the past year or so with these players who hvae no right to play the way they have done I personally think experienced players such as Dublin, Wilcox, Makin, Gemmill, Dabizas, Blake, Hignett, Elliott, Pressman, Howey, etc should be treated the same as inexperienced players coming through the ranks. It's obvious these so called experienced players a team like us sign are well past their best so why should they automatically walk in to our team and continue to stay there irrespective of how badly they perform?

Now don't get me wrong, there are certain old players that can prove to be excellent signings, but out of the majority of players we've signed over the age of 30 under Micky Adams and Dave Bassett nearly all of them have been shocking. Tiatto, Nalis, Ferdinand, Deane,McKinlay and Keown being the only ones I can think of that have been any good. There is a whole host of shockers we've signed though, which brings me to the conclusion that it's a gamble, a big gamble. They are a bunch of mis-fits and it's inevitable some of them will be crap, so I can't see how it's a bigger gamble to play players such as Stearman or Dawson in circumstances like the one we are in.

42251[/snapback]

The problem with bringing the younger players through is opportunity. Now most young players get their first introduction by coming on in the last 10 to 30 minutes of a game.

That to me has been the problem with LCFC both under MAs and now under CL, when in the last two years have we been in a game where you would feel comfortable/confident about bringing on young, inexperienced, untried players for the last period of the game. Most Games we have been in absolute panic mode, bringing those types of players on at that point I believe would imbed in them the same nervy culture and the cycle would continue.

One has to believe that eventually CL will be able to knock this out of the team, although I suspect it wont happen until 90% of them have been replaced. Therein lies the manager’s dichotomy I’m sure he would love to blood Stearman, Dawson and others but he needs to totally destroy this last 30 minute panic phase, could he really have put Dawson on last Saturday during that last 15 minutes of purgatory, I think not.

42271[/snapback]

That's a good point actually! Never really thought about it that way, but having said that Adams never really made any effort in developing our youngsters. I'm sure Levein won't have any hesitation in bringing our kids through at some stage. What angers me the most is how easy it is for the likes of Dublin, Gemmill, Makin, etc to play pretty poorly and still be in the hunt for a first team place. Especially when you watch these youngsters giving everything they've got when they play and actually look decent aswell.

[davieG]

I just don't buy in to this experience thing anymore, a few years ago I would say it's essential that your team has alot of experience for you to succeed. After watching some truely disgusting performances over the past year or so with these players who hvae no right to play the way they have done I personally think experienced players such as Dublin, Wilcox, Makin, Gemmill, Dabizas, Blake, Hignett, Elliott, Pressman, Howey, etc should be treated the same as inexperienced players coming through the ranks. It's obvious these so called experienced players a team like us sign are well past their best so why should they automatically walk in to our team and continue to stay there irrespective of how badly they perform?

Now don't get me wrong, there are certain old players that can prove to be excellent signings, but out of the majority of players we've signed over the age of 30 under Micky Adams and Dave Bassett nearly all of them have been shocking. Tiatto, Nalis, Ferdinand, Deane,McKinlay and Keown being the only ones I can think of that have been any good. There is a whole host of shockers we've signed though, which brings me to the conclusion that it's a gamble, a big gamble. They are a bunch of mis-fits and it's inevitable some of them will be crap, so I can't see how it's a bigger gamble to play players such as Stearman or Dawson in circumstances like the one we are in.

42251[/snapback]

The problem with bringing the younger players through is opportunity. Now most young players get their first introduction by coming on in the last 10 to 30 minutes of a game.

That to me has been the problem with LCFC both under MAs and now under CL, when in the last two years have we been in a game where you would feel comfortable/confident about bringing on young, inexperienced, untried players for the last period of the game. Most Games we have been in absolute panic mode, bringing those types of players on at that point I believe would imbed in them the same nervy culture and the cycle would continue.

One has to believe that eventually CL will be able to knock this out of the team, although I suspect it wont happen until 90% of them have been replaced. Therein lies the manager’s dichotomy I’m sure he would love to blood Stearman, Dawson and others but he needs to totally destroy this last 30 minute panic phase, could he really have put Dawson on last Saturday during that last 15 minutes of purgatory, I think not.

42271[/snapback]

That's a good point actually! Never really thought about it that way, but having said that Adams never really made any effort in developing our youngsters. I'm sure Levein won't have any hesitation in bringing our kids through at some stage. What angers me the most is how easy it is for the likes of Dublin, Gemmill, Makin, etc to play pretty poorly and still be in the hunt for a first team place. Especially when you watch these youngsters giving everything they've got when they play and actually look decent aswell.

42290[/snapback]

Simple put it's Bloody Frustrating, but as you say their day will soon come particularly Dawson, let's not forget Stearman is only 17, not many 17 year old central defenders playing out their, it's probably the most difficult and exposed position for a youngster to be put in.

[Guest]

Some good points there.

I wouldn't want to put any up and coming youngster through some of the last 10 minutes of some of the games we've had last year or so!!

[Ric Flair]

I just don't buy in to this experience thing anymore, a few years ago I would say it's essential that your team has alot of experience for you to succeed. After watching some truely disgusting performances over the past year or so with these players who hvae no right to play the way they have done I personally think experienced players such as Dublin, Wilcox, Makin, Gemmill, Dabizas, Blake, Hignett, Elliott, Pressman, Howey, etc should be treated the same as inexperienced players coming through the ranks. It's obvious these so called experienced players a team like us sign are well past their best so why should they automatically walk in to our team and continue to stay there irrespective of how badly they perform?

Now don't get me wrong, there are certain old players that can prove to be excellent signings, but out of the majority of players we've signed over the age of 30 under Micky Adams and Dave Bassett nearly all of them have been shocking. Tiatto, Nalis, Ferdinand, Deane,McKinlay and Keown being the only ones I can think of that have been any good. There is a whole host of shockers we've signed though, which brings me to the conclusion that it's a gamble, a big gamble. They are a bunch of mis-fits and it's inevitable some of them will be crap, so I can't see how it's a bigger gamble to play players such as Stearman or Dawson in circumstances like the one we are in.

42251[/snapback]

The problem with bringing the younger players through is opportunity. Now most young players get their first introduction by coming on in the last 10 to 30 minutes of a game.

That to me has been the problem with LCFC both under MAs and now under CL, when in the last two years have we been in a game where you would feel comfortable/confident about bringing on young, inexperienced, untried players for the last period of the game. Most Games we have been in absolute panic mode, bringing those types of players on at that point I believe would imbed in them the same nervy culture and the cycle would continue.

One has to believe that eventually CL will be able to knock this out of the team, although I suspect it wont happen until 90% of them have been replaced. Therein lies the manager’s dichotomy I’m sure he would love to blood Stearman, Dawson and others but he needs to totally destroy this last 30 minute panic phase, could he really have put Dawson on last Saturday during that last 15 minutes of purgatory, I think not.

42271[/snapback]

That's a good point actually! Never really thought about it that way, but having said that Adams never really made any effort in developing our youngsters. I'm sure Levein won't have any hesitation in bringing our kids through at some stage. What angers me the most is how easy it is for the likes of Dublin, Gemmill, Makin, etc to play pretty poorly and still be in the hunt for a first team place. Especially when you watch these youngsters giving everything they've got when they play and actually look decent aswell.

42290[/snapback]

Simple put it's Bloody Frustrating, but as you say their day will soon come particularly Dawson, let's not forget Stearman is only 17, not many 17 year old central defenders playing out their, it's probably the most difficult and exposed position for a youngster to be put in.

42300[/snapback]

That's another reason for us to chill out abit aswell as Stearman is only just turned 17, which we forget. But again if your good enough, your old enough. Stearman had such a good season last year going from City under 17's to under 19's to the reserves and England under 17's and then to young player of the year in less than 9 months. At the end of the day if he keeps progressing the way he is doing, there's no way he won't be in our team within a year. Perhaps he should be loaned out for a month or so that would be ideal I think. It will give him some first team football and give Levein a chance to see if he's ready, just like Piper did.

[Scow]

I think it's always good to have abit of experience at any team, but we have too many of these guys.

The problem with Mickey Adams team was no matter how experienced these guys are, it's all out the window when they keep getting chopped & changed & played out of position.

I've gotta say though CL seems to be settling the squad down & their fighting for the cause now. It's been a long time since we have seen something like what Williams done last week to save us. The fighting spirit seems to be coming back & heads arn't dropping when were loosing.

With the subs, I wouldn't get them on just to get them experience when it's a close game. 1 inexperienced moved could cost us the game & it would also knock their confidence.

Oh wellcome me!

42269[/snapback]

Welcome to the forum.

I think Davie makes a good point re: the panic situation. We don't want to condition the likes of Stearman and Dawson with that mentality. But with all this supposed experienced, why do we get in to situations like this? It baffles me, it must be set in the players mentality. On the other hand, maybe if we played the likes of Dawson and Stearman from the start, then we wouldn't get in to these situations? A fresh approach, more energy in closing down the opposition. New players, new mentality.

[shen]

I just don't buy in to this experience thing anymore, a few years ago I would say it's essential that your team has alot of experience for you to succeed. After watching some truely disgusting performances over the past year or so with these players who hvae no right to play the way they have done I personally think experienced players such as Dublin, Wilcox, Makin, Gemmill, Dabizas, Blake, Hignett, Elliott, Pressman, Howey, etc should be treated the same as inexperienced players coming through the ranks. It's obvious these so called experienced players a team like us sign are well past their best so why should they automatically walk in to our team and continue to stay there irrespective of how badly they perform?

Now don't get me wrong, there are certain old players that can prove to be excellent signings, but out of the majority of players we've signed over the age of 30 under Micky Adams and Dave Bassett nearly all of them have been shocking. Tiatto, Nalis, Ferdinand, Deane,McKinlay and Keown being the only ones I can think of that have been any good. There is a whole host of shockers we've signed though, which brings me to the conclusion that it's a gamble, a big gamble. They are a bunch of mis-fits and it's inevitable some of them will be crap, so I can't see how it's a bigger gamble to play players such as Stearman or Dawson in circumstances like the one we are in.

42251[/snapback]

The problem with bringing the younger players through is opportunity. Now most young players get their first introduction by coming on in the last 10 to 30 minutes of a game.

That to me has been the problem with LCFC both under MAs and now under CL, when in the last two years have we been in a game where you would feel comfortable/confident about bringing on young, inexperienced, untried players for the last period of the game. Most Games we have been in absolute panic mode, bringing those types of players on at that point I believe would imbed in them the same nervy culture and the cycle would continue.

One has to believe that eventually CL will be able to knock this out of the team, although I suspect it wont happen until 90% of them have been replaced. Therein lies the manager’s dichotomy I’m sure he would love to blood Stearman, Dawson and others but he needs to totally destroy this last 30 minute panic phase, could he really have put Dawson on last Saturday during that last 15 minutes of purgatory, I think not.

42271[/snapback]

I think this generally applies to most youngsters indeed, but in reality I believe you will have to look at the individual youngster's mentality. You're usually born with a strong character, so if either Stearman or Dawson have strong mentalities (e.g. hard working, will to win, not afraid to face a challenge) then I don't see why they shouldn't be given a starting place/get subbed in late in the game, EVEN if it's hectic. Sometimes I'm asking myself whether managers are being too careful brooding youngsters. I'm very impressed that Wenger has chosen to play Fabregas as much as he has. Playing in such a central role in one of the world's best teams as a 17 year-old is madness in most eyes, but why not? He's done brilliantly! Ditto with Rooney.

OK, maybe it's not fair to compare Stearman and Dawson with Rooney and Fabregas, and of course the circumstances are different (Cesc and Wayne playing in world class teams with fantastic players, whereas the same can't be said about our youngsters), but as Hoof has said many times now "if they're good enough, they're old enough".

[Ric Flair]

I just don't buy in to this experience thing anymore, a few years ago I would say it's essential that your team has alot of experience for you to succeed. After watching some truely disgusting performances over the past year or so with these players who hvae no right to play the way they have done I personally think experienced players such as Dublin, Wilcox, Makin, Gemmill, Dabizas, Blake, Hignett, Elliott, Pressman, Howey, etc should be treated the same as inexperienced players coming through the ranks. It's obvious these so called experienced players a team like us sign are well past their best so why should they automatically walk in to our team and continue to stay there irrespective of how badly they perform?

Now don't get me wrong, there are certain old players that can prove to be excellent signings, but out of the majority of players we've signed over the age of 30 under Micky Adams and Dave Bassett nearly all of them have been shocking. Tiatto, Nalis, Ferdinand, Deane,McKinlay and Keown being the only ones I can think of that have been any good. There is a whole host of shockers we've signed though, which brings me to the conclusion that it's a gamble, a big gamble. They are a bunch of mis-fits and it's inevitable some of them will be crap, so I can't see how it's a bigger gamble to play players such as Stearman or Dawson in circumstances like the one we are in.

42251[/snapback]

The problem with bringing the younger players through is opportunity. Now most young players get their first introduction by coming on in the last 10 to 30 minutes of a game.

That to me has been the problem with LCFC both under MAs and now under CL, when in the last two years have we been in a game where you would feel comfortable/confident about bringing on young, inexperienced, untried players for the last period of the game. Most Games we have been in absolute panic mode, bringing those types of players on at that point I believe would imbed in them the same nervy culture and the cycle would continue.

One has to believe that eventually CL will be able to knock this out of the team, although I suspect it wont happen until 90% of them have been replaced. Therein lies the manager’s dichotomy I’m sure he would love to blood Stearman, Dawson and others but he needs to totally destroy this last 30 minute panic phase, could he really have put Dawson on last Saturday during that last 15 minutes of purgatory, I think not.

42271[/snapback]

I think this generally applies to most youngsters indeed, but in reality I believe you will have to look at the individual youngster's mentality. You're usually born with a strong character, so if either Stearman or Dawson have strong mentalities (e.g. hard working, will to win, not afraid to face a challenge) then I don't see why they shouldn't be given a starting place/get subbed in late in the game, EVEN if it's hectic. Sometimes I'm asking myself whether managers are being too careful brooding youngsters. I'm very impressed that Wenger has chosen to play Fabregas as much as he has. Playing in such a central role in one of the world's best teams as a 17 year-old is madness in most eyes, but why not? He's done brilliantly! Ditto with Rooney.

OK, maybe it's not fair to compare Stearman and Dawson with Rooney and Fabregas, and of course the circumstances are different (Cesc and Wayne playing in world class teams with fantastic players, whereas the same can't be said about our youngsters), but as Hoof has said many times now "if they're good enough, they're old enough".

42362[/snapback]

Splendid post my friend, couldn't of put it better myself. Stearman and Dawson come on down. The main reason why I want to see them in our team is because at the minute our team is so stale, there's no characters other than Tiatto in our team that the fans can bond with and build up a rapport. It's full of mis-fits that Adams threw together and there's no continuity, I want a few home-grown players that are young, eager and have no respect for anyone to come in and potentially stay in our team for a number of years. Us fans have forgot what it's like to have a proper team with players that are worth money and not a bunch of journeymen who are here for their last pay check and not bothered whether the club succeed or fail.

I can't honestly say we have one player who's the fans idol or hero, now Muzzy and Dickov have gone there's nobody. But after watching Dawson play and his no nonsence style he could easily be a fans favourite and at 18 he could be in our team for years. Stearman is also one of the most advanced players i've ever seen for his age and again we could have 2 players in our team who are potentially exceptional players.