Doesn't this say it all about Schools?

[Matt]

Too many school leavers turn up at work looking scruffy, "grunting'' and unable to write or add-up properly, business leaders have warned.

A report from the CBI employers' group found one in three businesses were forced to pay for staff to have remedial lessons in basic literacy and numeracy.

Bosses condemned standards of spelling, handwriting and mental arithmetic - once the bedrock of lessons in "the three Rs'' at school.

And many firms raised concerns over the practical and social skills, as well as the "general attitude'' of school leavers, with one warning: "We'll soon have a nation of people unable to put up shelves.''

The findings came as hundreds of thousands of teenagers prepared to receive their GCSE results on Thursday.

Figures last year showed fewer than half passed five GCSEs including maths and English at grade C or better.

Ministers have promised a renewed drive to improve the basic standards of literacy and numeracy among 16-year-olds.

The CBI surveyed 140 member companies and conducted detailed case studies of 19 for the report.

Director general Richard Lambert said Britain could lose jobs to China and India if basic skill levels among UK workers do not improve.

"Employers' views on numeracy and literacy are crystal clear,'' he said.

"People need to be able to read and write fluently and to carry out basic mental arithmetic. Far too many school leavers struggle with these essential life skills.

"The fact that one in three employers ran remedial courses for their staff in the last year is a sad indictment of how the education system has let young people down.

"Acknowledging the problem and commissioning this report are first steps but the Government must show a far greater sense of urgency and purpose if it is to deliver on its promise to sort this out.''

Schools minister Jim Knight said ministers were reforming GCSEs to focus on the basics

"Every single young person must have a good grasp of the basics,'' he said.

"We have done more than any government to make this a reality.

"We are changing the way we measure performance in these basic skills and toughening up the English and maths GCSEs to ensure that young people master the three Rs.

"In the future employers will have a guarantee of the quality of the school leavers they are taking on."

GCSE'S - Exam Results - They are not everything, yeah I wasn't the brightest kid at school and the reason why? I wasn't in the first place so I was shoved to one side while the brighter people got help and listened to because all school are intrested in are - Exam results.

If the schools got a good reputation of exam results - It must be a good school ah?

I might not have been the brightest or got any decent exam results but I left school at 16 i'm now fully qualified. Why is everything so dependent of further education, exam results, e.t.c.

If school leavers haven't got basic literacy or numeracy skills teachers ain't doing the jobs right?

[lookwhaticando]

Essentially, yeah, that's the school system.

English classes are a waste of time at secondary school - they don't actually teach you much. It's almost all literature, there's nothing practical being taught. You rarely deal with many writing styles formally, and they never bother to refresh your grammar skills.

You enter secondary school with the same grammatical skills you leave with 5 years later... or in some cases people go in with no grammar skills and come out with even less than that.

Those PSE/PSVE classes they teach are also largely a waste of time. OK, teaching some social stuff is no bad thing, but a fair bit of it used to be covered in other classes too. PSE/PSVE should be used to teach all kids going onto 16 the realities of the 'outisde world' and employment/further education. That way at least people that leave at 16 will have some clue (even the ones that are crap at the core subjects).

[cisono]

You enter secondary school with the same grammatical skills you leave with 5 years later... or in some cases people go in with no grammar skills and come out with even less than that.

I am always amazed at how little grammar you are obviously taught in England and I am still not sure why that is the case...

[Matt]

Essentially, yeah, that's the school system.

English classes are a waste of time at secondary school - they don't actually teach you much. It's almost all literature, there's nothing practical being taught. You rarely deal with many writing styles formally, and they never bother to refresh your grammar skills.

You enter secondary school with the same grammatical skills you leave with 5 years later... or in some cases people go in with no grammar skills and come out with even less than that.

Those PSE/PSVE classes they teach are also largely a waste of time. OK, teaching some social stuff is no bad thing, but a fair bit of it used to be covered in other classes too. PSE/PSVE should be used to teach all kids going onto 16 the realities of the 'outisde world' and employment/further education. That way at least people that leave at 16 will have some clue (even the ones that are crap at the core subjects).

Best Practical and Social stuff? Send people college once a week (Maybe more than once) in my town I imagine its the same in most place the "bad" kids get sent to college once a day or more a week because basically the school doesn't want the hassle, Anyway these kids get sent to college to do practical subjects, i.e - Mechanical, electrics, plumbing, caprentry/joinery, e.t.c...Anyway my school was the only one in the town not to do this course, and besides you had to be a "bad" kid anyway so surly thats the wrong impression for school to give off? I was never a bad lad but would have prefered to finish school earlier than I did and go college, I was one of not many who knew what I wanted to do after school so that would have been perfect for me, but no school till 16 it is

[lcfc_jme]

Can people stop talking bad about GCSE results please I get mine on Thursday and I'm hoping to do pretty well in them And I feel I am more than capable of reading and writing things properly, as I can always understand Thracian and I am able to reply to most things (even some sh*t I rarely, if ever, hear of) on that Word Association thread.. Thanks

[gosfox]

yeah...pretty much agree with whats been said already..... schools seem to concentrate to much on academics IMHO, possibly if they tried teaching things to kids that are usefull to them like how to change a plug top or basic car mechanics.....or the offside law etc.etc. instead of X + Y = Z there might not be so much truancy

Gosfox

[lookwhaticando]

Can people stop talking bad about GCSE results please I get mine on Thursday and I'm hoping to do pretty well in them And I feel I am more than capable of reading and writing things properly, as I can always understand Thracian and I am able to reply to most things (even some sh*t I rarely, if ever, hear of) on that Word Association thread.. Thanks

Best of luck to you

[lcfc_jme]

Best of luck to you

thankyou very much

[lookwhaticando]

yeah...pretty much agree with whats been said already..... schools seem to concentrate to much on academics IMHO, possibly if they tried teaching things to kids that are usefull to them like how to change a plug top or basic car mechanics.....or the offside law etc.etc. instead of X + Y = Z there might not be so much truancy

Gosfox

What's that all about?

I thought you wanted to be contraversial?

[cisono]

Can people stop talking bad about GCSE results please I get mine on Thursday and I'm hoping to do pretty well in them And I feel I am more than capable of reading and writing things properly, as I can always understand Thracian and I am able to reply to most things (even some sh*t I rarely, if ever, hear of) on that Word Association thread.. Thanks

I didn't realise Thracian was our poet laureate

[lcfc_jme]

I didn't realise Thracian was our poet laureate

Thracian has very long rants and he uses quite long words a lot of the time, so I must not be as dumb as you think if I comprehend everything he posts

[Matt]

Can people stop talking bad about GCSE results please I get mine on Thursday and I'm hoping to do pretty well in them And I feel I am more than capable of reading and writing things properly, as I can always understand Thracian and I am able to reply to most things (even some sh*t I rarely, if ever, hear of) on that Word Association thread.. Thanks

Good luck hope you do well.

BUT Why are you so worried? This is the point i'm trying to make, Exam results ain't everything I really couldn't give a fuk when I got mine, I got E's, F's the best I got was a 1 C, and tbh honest I wasn't bothered about the C, I'm now qualified and getting on with the rest of my life.

I know I shouldn't but it really is a joke and makes me laugh when there's all stuff on the news with kids worried and trying to commit suicide because of bad exam results...WHY?!?!?

I know plenty of people who are bright, but when it comes to exams they do shit....Exam results mean nownt!

[lcfc_jme]

Good luck hope you do well.

BUT Why are you so worried? This is the point i'm trying to make, Exam results ain't everything I really couldn't give a fuk when I got mine, I got E's, F's the best I got was a 1 C, and tbh honest I wasn't bothered about the C, I'm now qualified and getting on with the rest of my life.

I know I shouldn't but it really is a joke and makes me laugh when there's all stuff on the news with kids worried and trying to commit suicide because of bad exam results...WHY?!?!?

I know plenty of people who are bright, but when it comes to exams they do shit....Exam results mean nownt!

Well I still want to pass, so thanks for the good luck. Tell me it means nothing when I'm pised when I get them

[cisono]

Thracian has very long rants and he uses quite long words a lot of the time, so I must not be as dumb as you think if I comprehend everything he posts

I never said you were dumb. Did anyone else?

I just found it funny how you singled him out, that's all

[Anish]

GCSE'S - Exam Results - They are not everything, yeah I wasn't the brightest kid at school and the reason why? I wasn't in the first place so I was shoved to one side while the brighter people got help and listened to because all school are intrested in are - Exam results.

If the schools got a good reputation of exam results - It must be a good school ah?

I might not have been the brightest or got any decent exam results but I left school at 16 i'm now fully qualified. Why is everything so dependent of further education, exam results, e.t.c.

If school leavers have got basic literacy or numeracy skills teachers ain't doing the jobs right?

Surely that doesn't make sense

[lcfc_jme]

I never said you were dumb. Did anyone else?

I just found it funny how you singled him out, that's all

Everybody is saying that exams are worth nothing really and people have no skills, even if they pass... And I singled out Thracian as he's the first person that came to mind, and everybody knows him for his long rants

[lookwhaticando]

Good luck hope you do well.

BUT Why are you so worried? This is the point i'm trying to make, Exam results ain't everything I really couldn't give a fuk when I got mine, I got E's, F's the best I got was a 1 C, and tbh honest I wasn't bothered about the C, I'm now qualified and getting on with the rest of my life.

I know I shouldn't but it really is a joke and makes me laugh when there's all stuff on the news with kids worried and trying to commit suicide because of bad exam results...WHY?!?!?

I know plenty of people who are bright, but when it comes to exams they do shit....Exam results mean nownt!

I like doing well on exams, it gives me bragging rights.

Especially when I beat people who studied many times harder than I did myself.

That's just the kinda guy I am - an arrogant ****, by all accounts.

Results matter to me, so exams are really important to me when my coursework wasn't good enough overall.

[cisono]

Everybody is saying that exams are worth nothing really and people have no skills, even if they pass... And I singled out Thracian as he's the first person that came to mind, and everybody knows him for his long rants

I see. My viewpoint is that these exams are really not measuring the skills that are required or anything much at all in fact except how good someone is at taking exams.

Keep reading (books as well as Thracian's rants) and you will improve further

[Matt]

Surely that doesn't make sense

I typed that wrong without even realising!

I bet you can guess what I ment:- "If school leavers haven't got basic literacy or numeracy skills teachers ain't doing the jobs right?"

See...Example of what I was "learnt" at school

[lcfc_jme]

I see. My viewpoint is that these exams are really not measuring the skills that are required or anything much at all in fact except how good someone is at taking exams.

Keep reading (books as well as Thracian's rants) and you will improve further

Noted mate cheers And can I take it that you are talking from experience???

[l444ry]

Unfortunately, parents need to stop wanting their kids to become brain surgeons, scientists or some other utopian genius. What is the shame in following a career in one of the traditional trades? What use there is in putting 50% of school leavers through University to learn ridiculous subjects is beyond me. And because that has become so expensive to fund every bright kid now has to pay the price in loans and debt. This results orientated education system is a farce.

[Matt]

Unfortunately, parents need to stop wanting their kids to become brain surgeons, scientists or some other utopian genius. What is the shame in following a career in one of the traditional trades? What use there is in putting 50% of school leavers through University to learn ridiculous subjects is beyond me. And because that has become so expensive to fund every bright kid now has to pay the price in loans and debt. This results orientated education system is a farce.

Exactly if people really know what they want to do and it involves uni, go for it, if you really have your heart set on doing a certain course or following that career path go for it, but it just seems to me alot of people follow the crowd when it comes to uni. How many psyhcologist will we need in a few years? teachers? e.t.c, yes we will need them but i'm telling you it'll be overpopulated career in a few years, Trades and "normal" jobs might not seem so exciting although ever since being a little kid I have wanted to be in a the building trade/carpentry trade.

Schools and education focus to much on academic, If thats what some people want to do fair enough, but imo its needs more practical subjects....

[lcfc_jme]

Exactly if people really know what they want to do and it involves uni, go for it, if you really have your heart set on doing a certain course or following that career path go for it, but it just seems to me alot of people follow the crowd when it comes to uni. How many psyhcologist will we need in a few years? teachers? e.t.c, yes we will need them but i'm telling you it'll be overpopulated career in a few years, Trades and "normal" jobs might not seem so exciting although ever since being a little kid I have wanted to be in a the building trade/carpentry trade.

Schools and education focus to much on academic, If thats what some people want to do fair enough, but imo its needs more practical subjects....

Schools focus a LOT on academic things, but colleges, universities and employers still moan that candidates are under-equipped and under-qualified, so of course they are going to focus a lot more on these things and try a lot harder to promote them. I agree with what you're saying, teaching and pyschiatrists will be overcrowded before long, because everybody wants to go into it under the illusion that it is extremely well paid. Manual work is by far better paid than those two professions, it just so happens that not as many people are interetsed in these career paths. Why don't you be an ambassador for manual work, you go round schools and/or stand in streets and promote them, and then when you get a healthy response, congratulations, you can stop moaning. Better still, write to the government or the Education secretary and tell them you feel that schools concentrate too much on academics. See what their response will be to it.

[Guest]

Schools and education focus to much on academic, If thats what some people want to do fair enough, but imo its needs more practical subjects....

Not when I went. My school was happy to let the bright kids go off and do their own thing, rather than focusing their attention on their studies. I was also part of the transition from O level to GCSE (the third year to take GCSE's), and I suppose that the teachers were still getting used to this, and coursework etc.

Schools were also not under pressure to get to the top of the league table in those days either, so I suppose they didn't care who passed or not. I know which I would have preferred.

[Cat Burger]

I'm almost certainly going to become a secondary school English teacher after I finish my University course (not much else you can do with an English degree). But to be honest, I'm worried about being outsmarted by the kids I'm teaching. Mostly because I've been studying Literature for so long...

In the past, if there was something I didn't understand about syntax for example. I'd be encouraged to ask a teacher, or I'd recieve feedback in essays...Hopefully teacher training will refresh my memory sufficiently.