Union Jack to Be Updated

[lookwhaticando]

Outdated or reflective of heritage?

After all, the US flag contains 13 horizontal stripes that are reference to the 13 states/provinces/regions that rebelled against British rule 200-odd years ago. You could call that outdated.

You could argue that they ought to change the flag since the US and the United Kingdom of Great Britain are now the best of buddies. But they don't - it's part of their heritage, so why change it?

The US Flag, and indeed the Union Flag, are instantly identifiable as symbols of their respective nations (or unions). Show a foreigner a Union Flag and they say "Ah! The UK/Great Britain". Show them St. George's cross and some will look at you blankly -->

It's even worse when you show them Y Ddraig Goch or St Andrew's cross, I suspect.

Ireland is part of our heritage... and we're still a part of Ireland. Not all of it, granted, but we still lay claim to a sizeable chunk of it. That'll do for me.

[shen]

Outdated or reflective of heritage?

After all, the US flag contains 13 horizontal stripes that are reference to the 13 states/provinces/regions that rebelled against British rule 200-odd years ago. You could call that outdated.

You could argue that they ought to change the flag since the US and the United Kingdom of Great Britain are now the best of buddies. But they don't - it's part of their heritage, so why change it?

The US Flag, and indeed the Union Flag, are instantly identifiable as symbols of their respective nations (or unions). Show a foreigner a Union Flag and they say "Ah! The UK/Great Britain". Show them St. George's cross and some will look at you blankly -->

It's even worse when you show them Y Ddraig Goch or St Andrew's cross, I suspect.

Ireland is part of our heritage... and we're still a part of Ireland. Not all of it, granted, but we still lay claim to a sizeable chunk of it. That'll do for me.

The discussion concerning the US is filled with nuances and complexities, but I thought that the notion of my thought is quite clear: That the symbol of the Kingdom of Ireland (RoI and NI) being under British rule (which the Union Flag quite literally exemplifies, no matter how you argue) is still being used despite the fact that the RoI has been independent for 75 years. I find that quite perverse. I can't imagine what the Swedes would think if we would still lay claim to Skåne, Halland and Blekinge (Southern part of Sweden), or at least symbolise their former membership of the Kingdom of Denmark.

I also find it interesting how you yourself say "UK/Great Britain". To me there is a distinct difference between the two, yet apparently the Union Flag represents both?

[Finnegan]

I'd imagine Y Ddraig Goch is quite widely known, tbh. It's one of only two national flags to have a dragon in the world, I think. And Braveheart probably did wonders for St. Andrew's.

[lookwhaticando]

The discussion concerning the US is filled with nuances and complexities, but I thought that the notion of my thought is quite clear: That the symbol of the Kingdom of Ireland (RoI and NI) being under British rule (which the Union Flag quite literally exemplifies, no matter how you argue) is still being used despite the fact that the RoI has been independent for 75 years. I find that quite perverse. I can't imagine what the Swedes would think if we would still lay claim to Skåne, Halland and Blekinge (Southern part of Sweden), or at least symbolise their former membership of the Kingdom of Denmark.

I also find it interesting how you yourself say "UK/Great Britain". To me there is a distinct difference between the two, yet apparently the Union Flag represents both?

I stated it as "UK/Great Britain" because not every person knows the distinction outside the UK. My point was that some people say UK, some say Great Britain (some even say merely England) because they're unaware of the proper naming system. That wasn't me calling it both, that's the person responding calling it either/or.

After all, I had a geography teacher who insisted that Ireland itself was part of Great Britain (she actually named Ireland as a constituency).

She wasn't a unionist ... she was just thick. <_<

[shen]

I'd imagine Y Ddraig Goch is quite widely known, tbh. It's one of only two national flags to have a dragon in the world, I think. And Braveheart probably did wonders for St. Andrew's.

Or even the Scottish football team that made it to a World Cup back in ancient history

Didn't know the thing about the semi-uniqueness of the Welsh flag, but I don't think it's status makes it more known. Hardly anyone knows Libyas or Nepals flag despite them being the only monocolour and non-rectangular national flags repectively.

[lookwhaticando]

I'd imagine Y Ddraig Goch is quite widely known, tbh. It's one of only two national flags to have a dragon in the world, I think. And Braveheart probably did wonders for St. Andrew's.

I'm not disputing that they're widely known or not - just that they're less widely recognized than the Union Flag itself.

Depends where you are I suppose... there's been plenty of people around this part of the world that have had to ask me to clarify what exactly the UK is, what Great Britain is, and whether Ireland is part of the United Kingdom or not. Some of them barely understand that Wales exists as a nation (point Wales out and they exclaim 'I thought that was part of England') - so they've no hope of knowing what the flag is!

Maybe I'm just surrounded by simple Canadians with no clue about geography.

[shen]

I stated it as "UK/Great Britain" because not every person knows the distinction outside the UK. My point was that some people say UK, some say Great Britain (some even say merely England) because they're unaware of the proper naming system. That wasn't me calling it both, that's the person responding calling it either/or.

After all, I had a geography teacher who insisted that Ireland itself was part of Great Britain (she actually named Ireland as a constituency).

She wasn't a unionist ... she was just thick. <_<

Gotcha, but I was again merely exemplifying that there is considerable confusion concerning the terms, even in 'Britain'. It's probably largely irrelevant in most cases, but it's quite obvious that some authorities have an agenda to purposefully create this confusion.

And it's amazing she was allowed to teach

[lookwhaticando]

Gotcha, but I was again merely exemplifying that there is considerable confusion concerning the terms, even in 'Britain'. It's probably largely irrelevant in most cases, but it's quite obvious that some authorities have an agenda to purposefully create this confusion.

And it's amazing she was allowed to teach

I think it's less sinister than that.

I think it's more a case of keeping with Tradition. The Flag has been the same since 1801, we didn't change it when the Irish Free State was created, so why change it now - 80-odd years late?

My personal preference is not to change it. The Flag represents the United Kingdom. The definition of the United Kingdom changed in the 1920s, but it's still the United Kingdom.

Akin to the offside rule in football - we changed the rule, but we didn't change it's name. Similarly with the flag... we changed the United Kingdom's name, but not the most recognizable icon of the UK - the Flag.

That's my view on it... I suspect that if Scotland removes itself from the Union, the flag will continue to be the same - this time, the definition of Great Britain will change. Just a suspicion/opinion. If the Ireland situation is anything to go by, a no-change policy with regards to the flag is likely.

If we give Northern Ireland independence or allow it to join the Republic, then perhaps something will change as the United Kingdom will no longer exist (you can't have a united kingdom of just one kingdom).

Oh yes... and you're right... it's amazing when a geography teacher doesn't know some of the fundamentals of the subject she's teaching. Teachers like her probably explain why surprising numbers of people ask me whether Ireland forms part of the UK (or 'Britain').