David Davis

[Flynny]

Never liked him before. I don't care that he's done this knowing he'll probably win his seat back, or could even get his Home Secretary job back - I admire what he's doing regardless. I also think Clegg's decision not to stand a Lib Dem MP is an admirable one as well.

I really don't believe that bill ever got through parliament. Outrageous.

[Head Honcho]

Never liked him before. I don't care that he's done this knowing he'll probably win his seat back, or could even get his Home Secretary job back - I admire what he's doing regardless. I also think Clegg's decision not to stand a Lib Dem MP is an admirable one as well.

I really don't believe that bill ever got through parliament. Outrageous.

A 5000 majority on the lib dems who won't be contesting the seat yeh what a hero

The by election is just a needless waste of tax payers money.

[Ultra]

Never liked him before. I don't care that he's done this knowing he'll probably win his seat back, or could even get his Home Secretary job back - I admire what he's doing regardless. I also think Clegg's decision not to stand a Lib Dem MP is an admirable one as well.

I really don't believe that bill ever got through parliament. Outrageous.

It hasn't. The Lords could still throw it out, and probably will.

Davis's posturing has at least exposed the Lib Dems as the pseudo-Tories that they always have been.

[Mort]

At the very least it’s good to see a senior politician make a stand on an issue of principal.

I don’t have the faintest idea what this will mean for Cameron, Brown or party politics in general, but maybe it wont mean a great deal, perhaps this really is an issue that just transcends that sort of competition?

Edit: It now looks like Labour will chicken-out of standing a candidate against Davis, leaving the BNP as the only pro-42 parties that might stand – a Labour government having it’s polices championed by the BNP!

[LeeCovFox]

A bit of a stunt to be honest. He knows he will win his seat back with ease, and he also will have received assurances from the leadership that he will have a senior cabinet position if, and as things stand the chances are increasingly when, the Tories win the next election. I will never vote Tory, however I do support them on this issue. Make no mistake, this is a very clever bit of political gamesmanship by the Tories, but it will make the debate on this issue far more public, and that is to be applauded.

[Webbo]

It hasn't. The Lords could still throw it out, and probably will.

Davis's posturing has at least exposed the Lib Dems as the pseudo-Tories that they always have been.

Or exposed the Labour party for the pseudo fascists they've always been.

I honestly wish David Davis had won the tory party leadership last time around. This is a brave decision from a principled politician, I applaud him.

[Ultra]

At the very least it's good to see a senior politician make a stand on an issue of principal.

I don't have the faintest idea what this will mean for Cameron, Brown or party politics in general, but maybe it wont mean a great deal, perhaps this really is an issue that just transcends that sort of competition?

Edit: It now looks like Labour will chicken-out of standing a candidate against Davis, leaving the BNP as the only pro-42 parties that might stand – a Labour government having it's polices championed by the BNP!

It's not quite that bad. UKIP have a large following in the constituency and they support the bill too.

But if what you report is true, and New Labour do bottle out of fighting the by-election, it would be the worst form of political cowardice.

If they have principled arguments in favour of the bill then they should at least have the guts to present them to the electorate.

[Flynny]

Make no mistake, this is a very clever bit of spin by the Tories, but it will make the debate on this issue far more public, and that is to be applauded.

It's really not. Labour are fairly sure this is going to work to their advantage, it would seem. Davis has yet to confirm that he's standing as a Tory Candidate.

Ultra: regarding the Lib Dems: issues of Civil Liberties are natural Lib Dem territory, so if anything this says a lot more about the Conservative Party than them.

Even if this is a stunt, its one I want to see happening, because people don't seem to understand what the issues are surrounding this bill. For it to gain much more attention is clearly his intention.

[Ultra]

Or exposed the Labour party for the pseudo fascists they've always been.

It has to be said there are elements like that within the higher reaches of the party. They're the ones that will bow and grovel to George W. when he comes visiting this weekend.

But to equate the whole party with such views is a a dangerous distortion of the truth. A real fascist government would have you tracked down and shot for posting views in opposition to it.

I honestly wish David Davis had won the tory party leadership last time around. This is a brave decision from a principled politician, I applaud him.

And where was he when Thatcher and Major promoted equally repressive "anti-terror" laws? I don't remember him speaking out then.

Put it like this, if he takes office with the proposed law in place, he will not exactly be in a hurry to scrap it.

[Mort]

It's not quite that bad. UKIP have a large following in the constituency and they support the bill too.

But if what you report is true, and New Labour do bottle out of fighting the by-election, it would be the worst form of political cowardice.

If they have principled arguments in favour of the bill then they should at least have the guts to present them to the electorate.

Thing is, there is a strong principled argument in favour of 42 days and as you say if that’s what Brown’s Party and his Government believe then they should match Davis principled stand with one of their own.

Even though I oppose 42 days on principal, I don’t dispute that some hold the opposite view equally strongly and a genuine debate and contest would only be good for politics in general – then again Brown ducking out of a fight isn’t exactly something new.

[Flynny]

Put it like this, if he takes office with the proposed law in place, he will not exactly be in a hurry to scrap it.

Wrong again. Do some research.

I was going to leave it at that but I've decided not to be vaguely patronising and instead actually inform you that both Davis and his successor have both promised to repeal this if and when they come to power. This despite going against natural Tory instincts.

It's been suggested that he personally has been the driving force behind Tory opposition to this for weeks on end.

[Webbo]

And where was he when Thatcher and Major promoted equally repressive "anti-terror" laws? I don't remember him speaking out then.

Equally repressive? I don't remember Mrs T or JM trying to introduce 42 days detention without trial ( I believe they wanted 90 days at one point). I don't remember either trying to introduce ID cards or DNA databases. I believe it was illegal to keep the fingerprints of people who weren't guilty of anything when Mrs T/JM was prime minister.

What I do remember however was the Labour calling for the prevention of terrorism act (which they introduced) repealed, that allowed for 7 days detention without trial.

[Ultra]

It's really not. Labour are fairly sure this is going to work to their advantage, it would seem. Davis has yet to confirm that he's standing as a Tory Candidate.

Ultra: regarding the Lib Dems: issues of Civil Liberties are natural Lib Dem territory, so if anything this says a lot more about the Conservative Party than them.

Even if this is a stunt, its one I want to see happening, because people don't seem to understand what the issues are surrounding this bill. For it to gain much more attention is clearly his intention.

The Tories are trying to pose as the champions of liberty, much as they did in the seventies.

But it proved to be a charade then, and it will be exactly the same now.

[Flynny]

The Tories are trying to pose as the champions of liberty, much as they did in the seventies.

But it proved to be a charade then, and it will be exactly the same now.

In what way did it prove to be a charade?

Besides, by all accounts Cameron tried to dissuade Davis against this course of action, so what's your point?

[lookwhaticando]

Admit it... you would.

Aimed at the next female to wander into this thread.

[davieG]

I take the view that it's been voted for in Parliament therefore that is as much the will of the people as is any other law that has been voted on. Some may argue that Brown has 'bought' votes but that sort of trading goes on all the while.

It seems to me without a referendum nobody knows what the will of the people is on this matter anyway, again that is true of most decisions made in parliament.

It also strikes me as a dangerous route to go down, where does one draw the line with respect to laws being introduced that you disagree with are we going to have MPs resigning evertime they have a vote on something just because they disagree with it?

[Ultra]

Equally repressive? I don't remember Mrs T or JM trying to introduce 42 days detention without trial ( I believe they wanted 90 days at one point). I don't remember either trying to introduce ID cards or DNA databases. I believe it was illegal to keep the fingerprints of people who weren't guilty of anything when Mrs T/JM was prime minister.

What I do remember however was the Labour calling for the prevention of terrorism act (which they introduced) repealed, that allowed for 7 days detention without trial.

The party said it would be a temporary measure at the time, which is remarkably smilar to what was said yesterday.

However Thatcher decided otherwise.

She also instigated phone-tapping, road blocks and mass arrests - not exactly the actions of a leader seeking to preserve the liberty of the individual.

[LeeCovFox]

In what way did it prove to be a charade?

Besides, by all accounts Cameron tried to dissuade Davis against this course of action, so what's your point?

I think thats rubbish. Cameron would have known about and supported this action. He knows that there is a good chance thats this will boost Tory popularity in the country. Ultra is right, the Tories are posing as the protectors of civil liberties. And it did prove to be a charade in the 80's. The internment of Irish Republican 'suspects' without trial anyone?

David Cameron is an opportunist politician of the worst kind. He is much like Tony Blair in that way. Davis Davis may or may not be takling a principled stand on this matter. But David Cameron knows exactly where the benefits for himself and his party lay. He is feathering his own nest.

[Hullfox]

It's not quite that bad. UKIP have a large following in the constituency and they support the bill too.

David Davis Conservative 22,792

Jon Neal Liberal Democrat 17,676

Edward Hart Labour 6,104

Jonathan Mainprize British National Party 798

Philip Lane UK Independence Party 659

Oh yes, that's a large following.

[Head Honcho]

Wrong again. Do some research.

I was going to leave it at that but I've decided not to be vaguely patronising and instead actually inform you that both Davis and his successor have both promised to repeal this if and when they come to power. This despite going against natural Tory instincts.

It's been suggested that he personally has been the driving force behind Tory opposition to this for weeks on end.

It's not quite as simple as that. Once a law is passed it is protected for so many years just to stop this kind of thing going on.

Can you imagine the chaos if everytime a different party took power our laws changed?

We cannot get enough laws passed by parliament as it is never mind if we keep goping back to repeal laws already passed.

[davieG]

It's not quite as simple as that. Once a law is passed it is protected for so many years just to stop this kind of thing going on.

Can you imagine the chaos if everytime a different party took power our laws changed?

We cannot get enough laws passed by parliament as it is never mind if we keep goping back to repeal laws already passed.

No there are far to many laws passed by parliament many of them just reiterating what is already in existence - they should spend a large proportion of their time repealing many of those that already exist.

[Head Honcho]

No there are far to many laws passed by parliament many of them just reiterating what is already in existence - they should spend a large proportion of their time repealing many of those that already exist.

Oh yeh I agree I wasn't saying we should have more laws just stating that government usually don't have enough time during their tenure to get the laws they had in their manifesto through in time.

[davieG]

Oh yeh I agree I wasn't saying we should have more laws just stating that government usually don't have enough time during their tenure to get the laws they had in their manifesto through in time.

Ok then - they just do it so because they think we'll believe they are doing something useful when it would be far more beneficial if they left things alone for a while -not all change is good.

[Flynny]

I think thats rubbish. Cameron would have known about and supported this action. He knows that there is a good chance thats this will boost Tory popularity in the country. Ultra is right, the Tories are posing as the protectors of civil liberties. And it did prove to be a charade in the 80's. The internment of Irish Republican 'suspects' without trial anyone?

David Cameron is an opportunist politician of the worst kind. He is much like Tony Blair in that way. Davis Davis may or may not be takling a principled stand on this matter. But David Cameron knows exactly where the benefits for himself and his party lay. He is feathering his own nest.

Just about every political commentator going reckons Cameron will be hating this, including those who spend massive amounts of time around Westminister and have contacts all over the place. Davis TOLD Cameron that he was going to do this yesterday, and Cameron has absolutely no choice other than to support him because he can't very well say that a decision his party took yesterday was incorrect. If this goes down badly, which is quite possible, he's in a hole.

[Webbo]

I think thats rubbish. Cameron would have known about and supported this action. He knows that there is a good chance thats this will boost Tory popularity in the country. Ultra is right, the Tories are posing as the protectors of civil liberties. And it did prove to be a charade in the 80's. The internment of Irish Republican 'suspects' without trial anyone?

Internment took place in the early 70s.