Guest Guest Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 You can take that statement and look at it irrationally or rationally. I'm sorry but you can't judge a player until he is geiven first team football. Nobody knows if they are good enough until they are given the chance, it's not that hard to accept that. Obviously for them to warrant the chance means they must be constantly impressing people like Stearman is. Babylon you've just pissed on your own fire with your response to my post. I didn't say youngsters should be thrown in, but Stearman is a perfect example of a player doing everything that is thrown at him and excelling yet he probably won't be given a chance yet. He won young player of the year last season, he was awesome for the under 17's, under 19's and the reserves. John Peacock who coaches the England under 17's said he has been exceptional in the games he played for them last season and also he's done well in pre-season for us. What else can he do until people stop picking faults with him and agree that they will make a judgement on him when he is given a chance. If he's not worth a chance to prove himself then I give up on football, every footballer starts out as an academy player and what do you have to do to convince people. Eat shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 You can take that statement and look at it irrationally or rationally. I'm sorry but you can't judge a player until he is geiven first team football. Nobody knows if they are good enough until they are given the chance, it's not that hard to accept that. Obviously for them to warrant the chance means they must be constantly impressing people like Stearman is. Babylon you've just pissed on your own fire with your response to my post. I didn't say youngsters should be thrown in, but Stearman is a perfect example of a player doing everything that is thrown at him and excelling yet he probably won't be given a chance yet. He won young player of the year last season, he was awesome for the under 17's, under 19's and the reserves. John Peacock who coaches the England under 17's said he has been exceptional in the games he played for them last season and also he's done well in pre-season for us. What else can he do until people stop picking faults with him and agree that they will make a judgement on him when he is given a chance. If he's not worth a chance to prove himself then I give up on football, every footballer starts out as an academy player and what do you have to do to convince people.Eat shit 12072[/snapback] I have never said he shouldnt get his chance when the time is right so arguing with me about this is pointless. I said we cant afford the luxury of putting him on the bench just to get 'squad experience' bearing in mind that would mean keown wasn't on the bench, had we not bought him then it would be a different storey all together. In one years time the kid will be 18, older, wiser and will have worked with keown for a year. Keown and dabizas will probably be gone and it will be his time to stake a claim. How many kids play first team football at the top level at the age of 17, only world class kids ie rooney, milner break through. Others only get their chance when injurys strike. Nice childish comments really make people take your posts seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scow Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 I saw Stearman play against East Bengal, and although he was excellent that day, he didn't seem to be phsyically ready. If you take Millwall for example, Danny Dichio could hardly be contained by either Dabizas or Keown, there is no way given Stearman's phsyique and strength that he could deal with him either - In fact, it would be far too easy for someone like Dichio to push him off the ball. Something like that could destroy the lads confidence. He's only 17 - How many 17 year old defenders do you see playing in a first team? I admit this lad has talent, but it's not all about that, it's about whether you can cope with the physical aspect of this league. I hope he is given a few sub apperances this season to aid his development, I'm sure that opportunity will arise once suspensions and injuries occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 You can take that statement and look at it irrationally or rationally. I'm sorry but you can't judge a player until he is geiven first team football. Nobody knows if they are good enough until they are given the chance, it's not that hard to accept that. Obviously for them to warrant the chance means they must be constantly impressing people like Stearman is. Babylon you've just pissed on your own fire with your response to my post. I didn't say youngsters should be thrown in, but Stearman is a perfect example of a player doing everything that is thrown at him and excelling yet he probably won't be given a chance yet. He won young player of the year last season, he was awesome for the under 17's, under 19's and the reserves. John Peacock who coaches the England under 17's said he has been exceptional in the games he played for them last season and also he's done well in pre-season for us. What else can he do until people stop picking faults with him and agree that they will make a judgement on him when he is given a chance. If he's not worth a chance to prove himself then I give up on football, every footballer starts out as an academy player and what do you have to do to convince people.Eat shit 12072[/snapback] I have never said he shouldnt get his chance when the time is right so arguing with me about this is pointless. I said we cant afford the luxury of putting him on the bench just to get 'squad experience' bearing in mind that would mean keown wasn't on the bench, had we not bought him then it would be a different storey all together. In one years time the kid will be 18, older, wiser and will have worked with keown for a year. Keown and dabizas will probably be gone and it will be his time to stake a claim. How many kids play first team football at the top level at the age of 17, only world class kids ie rooney, milner break through. Others only get their chance when injurys strike. Nice childish comments really make people take your posts seriously. 12077[/snapback] I wasn't arguing with you directly, I was just frustrated with this argument again. I don't think Stearman should be ahead of Keown, but there will come a time when there will be defensive problems through injury and suspension and I will be surprised if Adams gives Stearman a go, he'll probably put Dublin at the back or convert one of our midfielders there. Stearman should get the chance in a cup game and be put on the bench when we have no other central defenders to put there, like last saturday. In a years time I think he will be alot better aswell, but the odd cameo appearance to see if he's up to it wouldn't hurt either. It wouldn't be anymore a risk as it would be to play Blake when he's unfit or to play Scowcroft out of position. The matter is Stearman has met everyone's requirements that they set when there's talk of a young player coming through, i.e. consistently play well at youth, reserve and international level and the next step is the first team, irrespective of age. His age goes out of the window, if your good enough your old enough. Likewise if your good enough, your young enough. You argue so much about the reluctance of the youngsters been given the chance, you make some fair points regarding this but I still feel there are two sides to this argument and neither are right or wrong. Until Stearman and a few others are given the chance for us to cast judgement it's just going to be a regular debate. Bored now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 "You cant just put young players in for the sake of it" - No shit, i cannot for the life of me think when we have actually done this???? Now its all well and good thinking that to yourself and thinking how much you love Adams decision making by saying it, but theres something else you need to learn. And that is.. "YOU CANT JUST PUT EXPERIENCED PLAYERS IN FOR THE SAKE OF IT" Read this, learn it, read, learn, read, learn, and agree that 1 or 2 should be blooded into this team we have got. Not the whole U-19s, i said 1 or 2 like i have for the past 3 years. It would benefit the club more than Jason Wilcox and Nathan Blake, fcuking jokers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 You can take that statement and look at it irrationally or rationally. I'm sorry but you can't judge a player until he is geiven first team football. Nobody knows if they are good enough until they are given the chance, it's not that hard to accept that. Obviously for them to warrant the chance means they must be constantly impressing people like Stearman is. Babylon you've just pissed on your own fire with your response to my post. I didn't say youngsters should be thrown in, but Stearman is a perfect example of a player doing everything that is thrown at him and excelling yet he probably won't be given a chance yet. He won young player of the year last season, he was awesome for the under 17's, under 19's and the reserves. John Peacock who coaches the England under 17's said he has been exceptional in the games he played for them last season and also he's done well in pre-season for us. What else can he do until people stop picking faults with him and agree that they will make a judgement on him when he is given a chance. If he's not worth a chance to prove himself then I give up on football, every footballer starts out as an academy player and what do you have to do to convince people.Eat shit 12072[/snapback] I have never said he shouldnt get his chance when the time is right so arguing with me about this is pointless. I said we cant afford the luxury of putting him on the bench just to get 'squad experience' bearing in mind that would mean keown wasn't on the bench, had we not bought him then it would be a different storey all together. In one years time the kid will be 18, older, wiser and will have worked with keown for a year. Keown and dabizas will probably be gone and it will be his time to stake a claim. How many kids play first team football at the top level at the age of 17, only world class kids ie rooney, milner break through. Others only get their chance when injurys strike. Nice childish comments really make people take your posts seriously. 12077[/snapback] Valid point. But you can pick faults with every player in our team, Stearman is just an easy target because of his age and because he hasn't had 100+ games under his belt. The fact is, he has done remarkably well in all games he's played in at every level and when a player is doing this how can you say that he isn't ready? Nobody on this forum knows if he's ready, but we know that from reports in the media and from matches he's played that he is an outstanding talent. Division one hosts many young players, some good players and some that look out of their depth. I doubt it very much that Stearman would disgrace himself, there are reports he's mentally very strong and determined and just because he doesn't look like the stereotypical defender it looks like he has his critics even though nobody has seen what he can do. Michael Dawson is hardly well built, and as for Danny Dichio there aren't many defenders that can deal with him. So does that mean for any young player coming through they shouldn't be given the chance because a select few players are difficult to play against? Seems a very negative way of thinking to me. Anyway what do I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 "You cant just put young players in for the sake of it" - No shit, i cannot for the life of me think when we have actually done this????Now its all well and good thinking that to yourself and thinking how much you love Adams decision making by saying it, but theres something else you need to learn. And that is.. "YOU CANT JUST PUT EXPERIENCED PLAYERS IN FOR THE SAKE OF IT" Read this, learn it, read, learn, read, learn, and agree that 1 or 2 should be blooded into this team we have got. Not the whole U-19s, i said 1 or 2 like i have for the past 3 years. It would benefit the club more than Jason Wilcox and Nathan Blake, fcuking jokers. 12095[/snapback] Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcoos Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 As was said at the start of this thread, if they are good enough then they should play. If the best 11 are all over 35, play the lot. Equally if the best 11 are under 18 play them. To simply state that MA should blood 1 or 2 is not right. IF there are 1 or 2 that are good enough (in all aspects ie composure, ability, attitude, etc) then do it, but not otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 "You cant just put young players in for the sake of it" - No shit, i cannot for the life of me think when we have actually done this????Now its all well and good thinking that to yourself and thinking how much you love Adams decision making by saying it, but theres something else you need to learn. And that is.. "YOU CANT JUST PUT EXPERIENCED PLAYERS IN FOR THE SAKE OF IT" Read this, learn it, read, learn, read, learn, and agree that 1 or 2 should be blooded into this team we have got. Not the whole U-19s, i said 1 or 2 like i have for the past 3 years. It would benefit the club more than Jason Wilcox and Nathan Blake, fcuking jokers. 12095[/snapback] I completely agree, but only if the youngsters are of a good enough ability and physically have what is needed. Whether it would benefit us in any way is something that we will never know!? Wilcox could score the winnr on the last day of the season that takes us up. Tommy wright could play and miss a sitter meaning we dont go up. It's all ifs and buts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted 16 August 2004 Share Posted 16 August 2004 "You cant just put young players in for the sake of it" - No shit, i cannot for the life of me think when we have actually done this????Now its all well and good thinking that to yourself and thinking how much you love Adams decision making by saying it, but theres something else you need to learn. And that is.. "YOU CANT JUST PUT EXPERIENCED PLAYERS IN FOR THE SAKE OF IT" Read this, learn it, read, learn, read, learn, and agree that 1 or 2 should be blooded into this team we have got. Not the whole U-19s, i said 1 or 2 like i have for the past 3 years. It would benefit the club more than Jason Wilcox and Nathan Blake, fcuking jokers. 12095[/snapback] I completely agree, but only if the youngsters are of a good enough ability and physically have what is needed. Whether it would benefit us in any way is something that we will never know!? Wilcox could score the winnr on the last day of the season that takes us up. Tommy wright could play and miss a sitter meaning we dont go up. It's all ifs and buts. 12101[/snapback] That's the beauty of football, it's so complex. I get the feeling and I might be wrong on this, but the feeling I get is that Micky Adams is reluctant to play young players. Now before you all say, well that's bollocks because Adams wouldn't deliberatly not play a player that could turn out to be a world beater. But will the law of averages alone our current academy teams are one of the best in the country/region, and that will mean that atleast one or two will go on to become premier league players or even division one players. Forest, Ipswich, Crewe and many others have produced three or four good yong players in as many seasons and I see no reason why we can't given the success of our youth teams. Adams doesn't like to take a gamble and I think this stems down to the fact we don't see any of the younger players even getting a sniff. Whether Adams is right or wrong, there is nothing wrong with giving some of your younger players the chance if they do well in reserves, etc. That is as much of a gamble as playing a player out of position or signing 11 new players and expecting them to gel straight away. Adams takes risks all the time, but the same risks over and over again and they often don't pay off. Stearman deserves his chance at some stage this season as does Wright in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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