Modest and ruthless

[Thracian]

I can only assume you're being deliberately obtuse.

Not at all - 46 games at 2.2 goals a game. Why is that so unattainable whatever Reading have or haven't done?.

[Foxblogger]

Not at all - 46 games at 2.2 goals a game. Why is that so unattainable whatever Reading have or haven't done?.

Because since England won the world cup only two 2nd tier sides have ever managed it. Manchester City scored 108 in 01/02 and Bolton netted exactly 100 in 96/97. These were phenomenal seasons for both sides wherein they completely outshone everyone else in the division. It's a completely unrealistic to expect 100 goals as standard.

It's also completely unnecessary. Birmingham secured automatic promotion in 08/09 having scored just 54 goals. In the same season Norwich scored 57 and were relegated.

We're completely off topic. Feel free to have the last word. You post count would suggest you live for it.

[Thracian]

Because since England won the world cup only two 2nd tier sides have ever managed it. Manchester City scored 108 in 01/02 and Bolton netted exactly 100 in 96/97. These were phenomenal seasons for both sides wherein they completely outshone everyone else in the division. It's a completely unrealistic to expect 100 goals as standard.

It's also completely unnecessary. Birmingham secured automatic promotion in 08/09 having scored just 54 goals. In the same season Norwich scored 57 and were relegated.

We're completely off topic. Feel free to have the last word. You post count would suggest you live for it.

I'm not interested in what is "standard". I want us to set our own standards.

And if you're happy with 54 goals in a season because it will get us up it won't do for me. I want to see some football and to enjoy some excitement.

I don't buy my season ticket to watch us pinch dreary 1-0's and scrap out bore draws..

[muzzy1981]

The main reason for our poor run is lack of experience in our best 11. If you look at Qpr and Swans, 8/9 of their most regular starters this season have either already played a season for their respective club or have solid champ experience. We only have king,gally, wellens. I agree that Sven is having to learn fast about the Champ and blatantly improving, but I hope he has spotted some talented champ players to build for next if we don't go up.

[loAf]

You're right about the rush of goals under Sven and no-one was more pleased to celebrate them than I was - until they stopped.

And where did those goals come from. Lots of quick, crisp, pass-and-move football with movement in every direction, full-backs eager to support and people trying their hardest to get in the box.

But not now. It's all been abandoned in the fields of fear and on the bonfire of self-doubt. Apart from three goals against hapless Scunthorpe, we've scored just three goals in our last five games and, worse still, we've seized completely as a team.

As the doubts have crept in so more and more players have stopped making the selfless runs, stopped having a speculative pop at goal, stopped trying to take people on and stopped trying to play their fast one-twos.

In past parlance they've started hiding, started avoiding being seen to do something that my cost us or single them out for criticism. Those things are the sure signs of fear in a team. Because a confident team will try everything and anything.

In theatre terms the last few weeks represented six opening nights - six days when we needed to be seen at our best. You'd think that might mean even faster passing and even more shots but no. We quit, we didn't try to pass the ball properly at all. Anyone who saw the Cardiff, Norwich or Portsmouth games could surely have no doubt about it. We froze in the headlights.

We didn't go down with all guns blazing, peppering the woodwork or forcing breathtaking saves. We never attempted to do what had served us so well but simply surrendered ground meekly, developed no tempo whatsoever and got exactly what we deserved.

thats just outside macclesfield isn't it? personally i prefer a day out to the zoo of inevitability, and a ride on the slide of self discovery.

[thybluefox]

thats just outside macclesfield isn't it? personally i prefer a day out to the zoo of inevitability, and a ride on the slide of self discovery.

Thracian, the more I read of your posts, the more deluded I think you are. Which is a shame as I think you occasionally make a good point. A true keyboard warrior, your mum must be proud.

[MC Prussian]

Where have I said or implied that? I haven't. I said we had an average player as manager and a defender as coach....the two comments were combined. And seeing as Sven was an average midfield player to boot, it seems we have no-one who has the faintest idea how to get our team attacking effectively and in numbers.

At least that is how it looks to me from the stands and I sure wish I had your seat if you've been seeing it any differently.

For the record I've nothing whatsoever against "average player" managers - Wenger being as good as any in terms of the football I like to see. In fact some of the so-called stars who get near instant elevation to managership status are an embarrassment.

What I do object to is negative football and that's all we've played recently against anyone who's been any good, QPR partially excepted.

Sven and Faz might appear to think we can get by begging results against any of the decent teams but me, I prefer that they have to worry about what we're going to do.

No it didn't help giving our opponents umpteen points start but we've had chance to rectify that by getting some pacey attackers and pushing some numbers forward but we haven't done it. We've gone for misfiring old timers.

We got rid of our best goalscoring/goalmaking winger courtesy of master-stroke Pearson and shunted in a bloke who scores every leap year and doesn't look like a winger anyway.

We link him in with a bloke who's got stacks of ability but nothing like the energy to make others play and to close people down quickly then we persist with two non-scoring central midfielders yet you get shirty at the thought of Sven and Faz being criticised.

Well you excuse em all you like. I said we'd fail this season for the same reason we'd fail last season - because we wouldn't score enough goals. I didn't say that because I'm some sort of soothsayer but because we don't have the right players or the right philosophy to score enough, therefore saying so was just stating the obvious.

How many goals did we score against Cardiff, Coventry, QPR, Norwich and Portsmouth, five vitally important games? Three! Or half the goals necessary. And how hard did we try to score goals?. Nowhere near hard enough in my eyes.

Listen to yourself Thracian. I know that you are able to come up with sensible posts, but the nonsense you're spouting in this thread in particular is laughable. Early form of Alzheimer's? (Pardon my French)

The football career of managers has no immediate influence on their coaching style and just because Sven was a mediocre footballer (whose career was cut short by a knee injury, which you fail to mention) doesn't mean he cannot instill an attacking mentality.

You may want to ask longstanding fans or former players at Gothenburg, Benfica, Fiorentina, Lazio Roma, Sampdoria, AS Roma or Manchester City what they think of The Man.

Did he ever sign for one of these sides halfway through a season?

Why is scoring loads of goals so important to you? If we went up this season, I'd love to stuff your mouth personally or get you to hide in a hole for an entire season.

It's about "winning" (©Charlie Sheen).

Players start to adapt to a new system (e.g. a new manager) after a full pre-season, given they play a vital role in the manager's book.

I don't think you can say that about Sven and our current part-bland, part-brilliant squad that had to recover from a very poor start under a manager with a poor pre-season of his own.

Your constant criticism of the people that let Gradel go - let it go, you silly old bugger.

Just because he's doing well for Leeds now doesn't automatically qualify him as a world-class footballer and time will have to tell whether the actually deserves the praise you constantly load onto him.

It doesn't make him excempt from failing, too (I don't wish that on any former City players, but it's a possibility).

Are you another one of these backwards-oriented fans who think no good of the current squad and have no faith in future progress whatsoever?

How come we're "failing" this season? How can you consider Sven's reign a failure? If at all, blame it on the management triumvirate of Mandaric, Hoos and Sousa. Shit happens.

When will people like you finally get the message that this season under Sven with the (loan) players that we have can only be considered a "three-quarter-of-a-season experiment", which so far has been rather successful.

This patched-up team has proven it can play to its best and score goals. Every team goes through bad times, we've just had a really bad spell and things will get better again.

I wish narrow-minded people of your kind would finally start to acknowledge that change is nothing but normal and football rather unpredictable.

Better stick to playing Football Manager.

[funkyrobot]

Thought this thread was about a new Bruce Willis film or something. 'modest and ruthless' certificate 18 straight to VHS, like city's last few games!

[Thracian]

Listen to yourself Thracian. I know that you are able to come up with sensible posts, but the nonsense you're spouting in this thread in particular is laughable. Early form of Alzheimer's? (Pardon my French)

The football career of managers has no immediate influence on their coaching style and just because Sven was a mediocre footballer (whose career was cut short by a knee injury, which you fail to mention) doesn't mean he cannot instill an attacking mentality.

You may want to ask longstanding fans or former players at Gothenburg, Benfica, Fiorentina, Lazio Roma, Sampdoria, AS Roma or Manchester City what they think of The Man.

Did he ever sign for one of these sides halfway through a season?

Why is scoring loads of goals so important to you? If we went up this season, I'd love to stuff your mouth personally or get you to hide in a hole for an entire season.

It's about "winning" (©Charlie Sheen).

Players start to adapt to a new system (e.g. a new manager) after a full pre-season, given they play a vital role in the manager's book.

I don't think you can say that about Sven and our current part-bland, part-brilliant squad that had to recover from a very poor start under a manager with a poor pre-season of his own.

Your constant criticism of the people that let Gradel go - let it go, you silly old bugger.

Just because he's doing well for Leeds now doesn't automatically qualify him as a world-class footballer and time will have to tell whether the actually deserves the praise you constantly load onto him.

It doesn't make him excempt from failing, too (I don't wish that on any former City players, but it's a possibility).

Are you another one of these backwards-oriented fans who think no good of the current squad and have no faith in future progress whatsoever?

How come we're "failing" this season? How can you consider Sven's reign a failure? If at all, blame it on the management triumvirate of Mandaric, Hoos and Sousa. Shit happens.

When will people like you finally get the message that this season under Sven with the (loan) players that we have can only be considered a "three-quarter-of-a-season experiment", which so far has been rather successful.

This patched-up team has proven it can play to its best and score goals. Every team goes through bad times, we've just had a really bad spell and things will get better again.

I wish narrow-minded people of your kind would finally start to acknowledge that change is nothing but normal and football rather unpredictable.

Better stick to playing Football Manager.

I don't play football manager which just about sums up how convincing the rest of your argument is.

As for Sven instilling an attacking mentality. Yes he did start that way but, after considerable success, seemed to abandon that approach when the pressure started mounting and we played a succession of games against our play-offs challengers and, suddenly we looked like stuttering apologists for promotion.

And just because you'd accept promotion on the back of boring, cagey football doesn't mean that interests me at all and nor does it impress me as the most likely route towards success.

You shout "it's about winning" on the one hand "and blandly dismiss four defeats in six games as a bad patch rather than what it is - far too many examples of how not to win.

As for Gradel I'd have long stopped mentioning him if there were any signs of us ever getting a comparable or better replacement, but we haven't and that's the bigger shame.

Of course Gradel could falter. But I don't think he could falter any more dramatically than what we've got and what we've had in his position.

The only time I've seen one of his replacements, Vasssell, play well with us was as a central striker - and the moment he did that Sven dropped him just like he did Vitor and Weale when they played well. Bizarre and truly great for team morale.

As for the saying we've failed this season I don't actually remember writing that at all, not least because the season is not over.

Can we still be successful? Mathematically no question. But will it happen? Well, I don't think so.

We could have done it but we didn't attend to the failings I've mentioned and I just don't believe they'll be attended to between now and the end of the campaign. If they are you can crow long and loud with my blessing.

If not, well, life's a bitch but there's always next season.