Get off the back of Wood!

[foxfanazer]

It's not his fault fault but we play better football with him off the field. He has the physical attributes of a target man, so sub consciously our inexperienced team try to play him as exactly that which leads to hoof ball. Unfortunately he is pretty poor at holding the ball up and that therefore leads to loss of possession.

He isn't a target man but we use him as one, this in effect has led to our downfall unfortunately. It's no coincidence that without him we went back to our very good passing game at Brighton.

Feel sorry for the lad really as its not his fault. He must be frustrated.

Totally agree, he isn't a target man. He is far better running on to the ball but unfortunately we don't really have midfielders that can unlock a defence with a killer ball for him.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Give the lad a break, without his goals we would've drifted away from the playoffs a long time ago. He does look like he needs a rest but we have so little other options it doesn't really make that viable. Also our creativity has been poor of late and I struggle to think of any striker in this league that would get many goals in this side at the moment

This

Good post

[marbelladave]

It's not his fault fault but we play better football with him off the field. He has the physical attributes of a target man, so sub consciously our inexperienced team try to play him as exactly that which leads to hoof ball. Unfortunately he is pretty poor at holding the ball up and that therefore leads to loss of possession.

He isn't a target man but we use him as one, this in effect has led to our downfall unfortunately. It's no coincidence that without him we went back to our very good passing game at Brighton.

Feel sorry for the lad really as its not his fault. He must be frustrated.

Fair point, but we also need to factor in NFP's tactics, his love of getting the ball forward forward quickly and defending deep and in numbers so that we are short of options in midfield.

Would love to see him playing in front of the team that took us top back in October......

Totally agree, he isn't a target man. He is far better running on to the ball but unfortunately we don't really have midfielders that can unlock a defence with a killer ball for him.

Of course we do, Knockaert, Marshall and Gallagher (yes even him) are quite capable of playing that role given the right setup.

Unfortunately NFP seems to think they are all wingbacks........

[foxfanazer]

Fair point, but we also need to factor in NFP's tactics, his love of getting the ball forward forward quickly and defending deep and in numbers so that we are short of options in midfield.

Would love to see him playing in front of the team that took us top back in October......

Of course we do, Knockaert, Marshall and Gallagher (yes even him) are quite capable of playing that role given the right setup.

Unfortunately NFP seems to think they are all wingbacks........

If you say so

[marbelladave]

If you say so

I did say so, it's right there a couple of posts up.

So your point is.......

[foxfanazer]

I did say so, it's right there a couple of posts up.

So your point is.......

what I mean is, you say of course we have players that can do that. Have we really seen any evidence that this is true?

Didn't mean for it to sound so sarcastic

[marbelladave]

what I mean is, you say of course we have players that can do that. Have we really seen any evidence that this is true?

Didn't mean for it to sound so sarcastic

OK.......

Positive evidence is difficult, I would point to the brief period in September/October when, still playing 4-4-2 we had the flexibility to allow Knockaert , Marshall, and to an extent Dyer to roam across the front line and support the frond men, playing the ball into feet more often than not. Took us top of the table.......

Sadly negative evidence is more obvious, the more rigid 4-4-2 we have played in recent times leaves no space for a creative central player, anyway NFP mistrusts creative types to the extent that they only get to play peripheral roles. Sadly in his teams wingers are peripheral and quite often so burdened with defensive duties that they offer little going forward.

We have seen, one of our more creative players, Gallagher, sidelined on the wing, given defensive duties that are not his game and gradually worn down to the bit part player he is today.

Sadly I see Marshall has gone exactly the same way, his attacking flair is being so overwhelmed by his defensive duties that he is now largely ineffective in an attacking role (he said as much himself) and judging by his frustration and now his exclusion from the team it looks like Knockaert could be going the same way.

What is the fascination that we seem to have that involves taking good attacking players and turning them into lousy defensive ones........

[foxfanazer]

OK.......

Positive evidence is difficult, I would point to the brief period in September/October when, still playing 4-4-2 we had the flexibility to allow Knockaert , Marshall, and to an extent Dyer to roam across the front line and support the frond men, playing the ball into feet more often than not. Took us top of the table.......

Sadly negative evidence is more obvious, the more rigid 4-4-2 we have played in recent times leaves no space for a creative central player, anyway NFP mistrusts creative types to the extent that they only get to play peripheral roles. Sadly in his teams wingers are peripheral and quite often so burdened with defensive duties that they offer little going forward.

We have seen, one of our more creative players, Gallagher, sidelined on the wing, given defensive duties that are not his game and gradually worn down to the bit part player he is today.

Sadly I see Marshall has gone exactly the same way, his attacking flair is being so overwhelmed by his defensive duties that he is now largely ineffective in an attacking role (he said as much himself) and judging by his frustration and now his exclusion from the team it looks like Knockaert could be going the same way.

What is the fascination that we seem to have that involves taking good attacking players and turning them into lousy defensive ones........

I'm a supporter of NO but the points you make are unavoidably true. Knockaert in particular should be let loose and have very little defensive responsibility. We need to play either him or Marshall more central behind the striker/s

[_Fatboyslow_]

For nearly 10 weeks.......

Not having a go at the lad, I feel his lack of goals and poor form is as much a symptom of our lousy play as anything, but I remain concerned about his lack of sharpness and commitment.

Ditto

[marbelladave]

I'm a supporter of NO but the points you make are unavoidably true. Knockaert in particular should be let loose and have very little defensive responsibility. We need to play either him or Marshall more central behind the striker/s

In the last game, King, who is really not a creative type played that role. He did ok but any of the three players I mentioned would have done better offensively.

Interestingly, King was for much of the game, given the relatively simple defensive job of looking after Bridcutt, Brightons 'point man' in midfield and this was instrumental in a City side, still fairly out of sorts, having a degree of control in midfield.

If we played a proper playmaker in this role, then defensively he can do the same thing, pick the oppositions most influential deep lying midfield player and mark him. No great thought, no chasing back, just close him down, even Marshall and Knockaert can do that.....

[Col city fan]

Fair point, but we also need to factor in NFP's tactics, his love of getting the ball forward forward quickly and defending deep and in numbers so that we are short of options in midfield.

Would love to see him playing in front of the team that took us top back in October......

Of course we do, Knockaert, Marshall and Gallagher (yes even him) are quite capable of playing that role given the right setup.

Unfortunately NFP seems to think they are all wingbacks........

There's a shock! You're talking tactics again!

Let me guess... Play a slick, passing game and we'll annihilate the opposition home and away?

[_Fatboyslow_]

There's a shock! You're talking tactics again!

Let me guess... Play a slick, passing game and we'll annihilate the opposition home and away?

Better idea than a hatchet man in midfield

[Col city fan]

Better idea than a hatchet man in midfield

It's the 'we'll beat everyone if we play our natural game' thing that I have issue with..

[marbelladave]

There's a shock! You're talking tactics again!

Let me guess... Play a slick, passing game and we'll annihilate the opposition home and away?

Not necessarily, but we will at least give ourselves the chance of doing so, setting up to contain does not.......

[_Fatboyslow_]

It's the 'we'll beat everyone if we play our natural game' thing that I have issue with..

I know Col, we really needed a bit of better choice to make changes that amount to something differant and worthwhile which at presant we don't have. MD is right in so much as if it worked it would be great, I just wish we had a better idea of why the wheels came off?

[Col city fan]

Not necessarily, but we will at least give ourselves the chance of doing so, setting up to contain does not.......

So setting up away from home such that we don't concede and nick a goal or two doesn't 'give us a chance of winning'?

Eh?

[_Fatboyslow_]

So setting up away from home such that we don't concede and nick a goal or two doesn't 'give us a chance of winning'?

Eh?

In theory yes

[Col city fan]

In theory yes

You clearly didn't watch Pearson's first Championship Season..

[marbelladave]

Seriously Col, when have I ever said that?

I have advocated playing an aggressive, passing game for the simple reason that we are much better at it than when we try and contain.

Playing the passing style we have not been well beaten by anyone, the closest you can get was when we played pretty well against an in form Cardiff and got mugged by Bellamy on the break. Otherwise I am struggling to think of any occasion where we have played our 'slick passing game' and been turned over by opposition who were better on the day.

Sure we have lost games playing that way but never trounced and on most occasions that I can recall better finishing could well have won us the points. Far better than turning out to contain and being routinely turned over by the likes of Watford, Millwall and the rest.

[_Fatboyslow_]

You clearly didn't watch Pearson's first Championship Season..

I did but that was a different time and place AND we had Wellens playing like a man possessed and a better defence and Matty mmmm forget the last point

[Col city fan]

Seriously Col, when have I ever said that?

I have advocated playing an aggressive, passing game for the simple reason that we are much better at it than when we try and contain.

Playing the passing style we have not been well beaten by anyone, the closest you can get was when we played pretty well against an in form Cardiff and got mugged by Bellamy on the break. Otherwise I am struggling to think of any occasion where we have played our 'slick passing game' and been turned over by opposition who were better on the day.

Sure we have lost games playing that way but never trounced and on most occasions that I can recall better finishing could well have won us the points. Far better than turning out to contain and being routinely turned over by the likes of Watford, Millwall and the rest.

Yes but I've been advocating that we play a containing game away from home with a new signing or two.

There's no way it will work with a King/Drinky combination in a four four two.

James/Drinky has looked better but I felt we needed someone in January to bolster the midfield. (In fact, someone from the summer to do this).

A change of some personnel and a containing game away from home would have been the way to go IMO.

As it is, neither your 'aggressive attacking' not my 'defensive containing' has yielded success with the current squad, away from home.

If we control games better, the forwards will get more chances and score more goals IMO.

[marbelladave]

So setting up away from home such that we don't concede and nick a goal or two doesn't 'give us a chance of winning'?

Eh?

When have we ever done that this season? Seriously when?

A point at Hull maybe but compared to 'setting up away from home such that we don't concede and nick a goal or two' and getting turned over by Watford, Leeds, Millwall etc has hardly worked has it.

Yes, it has worked in seasons past, but this season, not one victory that could be described as a smash and grab.

[Col city fan]

I did but that was a different time and place AND we had Wellens playing like a man possessed and a better defence and Matty mmmm forget the last point

The last point is important.

Both Fryatt and Howard, neither great players individually, had a very good understanding of each others game. Perhaps the last pairing to have this understanding?

And our success WAS built upon not conceding away from home and nicking games one nil.. Or at least drawing.

Now, goodness knows what's coming?

When have we ever done that this season? Seriously when?

A point at Hull maybe but compared to 'setting up away from home such that we don't concede and nick a goal or two' and getting turned over by Watford, Leeds, Millwall etc has hardly worked has it.

Yes, it has worked in seasons past, but this season, not one victory that could be described as a smash and grab.

Look up..

[marbelladave]

Yes but I've been advocating that we play a containing game away from home with a new signing or two.

There's no way it will work with a King/Drinky combination in a four four two.

James/Drinky has looked better but I felt we needed someone in January to bolster the midfield. (In fact, someone from the summer to do this).

A change of some personnel and a containing game away from home would have been the way to go IMO.

As it is, neither your 'aggressive attacking' not my 'defensive containing' has yielded success with the current squad, away from home.

If we control games better, the forwards will get more chances and score more goals IMO.

I appreciate and understand your view Col, it is always well argued, but to my mind flawed for the simple reason that It replies on players that we do not have. I am quite sure that with 'one or two' decent attacking players we could be even more effective playing an attacking style, but like yours, that point is moot.

I would argue that our aggressive attacking style was successful enough to take us top of the table at the end of the October and as I said above, even though we were not great away, we were always in with a shout and looking at the table, good enough.......

[marbelladave]

The last point is important.

Both Fryatt and Howard, neither great players individually, had a very good understanding of each others game. Perhaps the last pairing to have this understanding?

And our success WAS built upon not conceding away from home and nicking games one nil.. Or at least drawing.

Now, goodness knows what's coming?

Look up..

But not this season with the players we do have, which is very much my point........