leicsmac

They're certainly not all stupid (again, wouldn't use that word myself anyway). But the smart ones are definitely driven by a fair amount of self interest at the expense of other people. Is that really a desirable quality?

Key word in that sentence being "likely". Some might have spent time there, have reasonable knowledge of the people and the politics, and still think that those voting for Trump are misguided and/or massively self interested, among other adjectives (wouldn't use the term stupid, myself). Do agree that the bigger issue is inequality based first and foremost, though. I don't think it is a coincidence that things have become more polarised as social media has gathered strength and the idea of truth is being subverted.

The political has become personal for a lot of people in the last decade or two, agreed. That being said, that's just a backslide to historical circumstances rather than an aberration and is prevalent a lot outside the Anglophone, I think. Fundamental human rights have been something that have had to have been fought tooth and nail for and clearly still are. Sad reflection of the times we live in.

I think there are quite a few people who simply do just stay home, but yeah. I'd like to see a viable third party too, but I think it would take a real paradigm shift in the entire US philosophy for it to happen - thank Reagan and his shifting of the entire Overton Window so violently rightward for that.

Haha, I'd like that! And yeah, I'm pretty forthright on it, the environmental policy decisions alone are enough of an argument to vote for Harris IMO, anyone vaguely clued up on what's coming should know that. The viewpoints towards anyone outside of a very particular demographic and views on gun control etc just add weight.

It's the acts of some of his supporter based willing to act on that xenophobia that blows the mind, too. If nothing else, this is all going to make a fascinating case study of how your can make turkeys vote for Christmas if you promise (lie) about giving them an extra bob in their back pocket for the moment.

It's also unfortunate that a lot of Latino blokes have bought into Trumps ideas (even to the point of being elected to office as Repubs) given that the "jokes" made by folks like Hinchcliffe is what the Repub voter base mostly really thinks of them.

And they're making a costly decision based on short term self interest. Again, that's between them and their own conscience, but I don't expect others to be so understanding of it. Speaking personally, I don't think the man was incompetent in terms of his deeds at all, even if his words lied. The Supreme Court appointments followed by their decisions and shredding of pretty much any environmental protection policy, for two things. He set out to do what he wanted, it happened that a great deal of it was bad for everyone outside a particular bubble. I wonder if most look back at roughly a hundred years ago and put the blame for the darkness then on the opposition not doing enough to keep the darkness out.

To echo a sentiment from a while back: "your concerns may be legitimate, but perhaps neofascist enablers shouldn't be your answer?"

Clearly those people mentioned above are considered expendable by those "working families crushed by inflation", then. Up until the point reality bites even for them, given the actions of a Trump administration will turn out long term negative for practically everyone.

... and I'm sure all the future Heather Heyers, Leelah Alcorns, school shooting victims and climate refugees will happily understand that their plight is down to the Dems somehow not being solid enough on policy.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-18/america’s-last-election:-the-big-lie/104492066 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-26/america’s-last-election-part-2:-the-fake-elector/104520604 Good deep dive by the Aussies about last time round.

Again, if people want to blame the Dems for all this and stump for Trump for their own short-term economic reasons, that's between them and their own conscience. I just wonder, a while down the line, all those people outside his and his supporters favoured demographic that suffer and those in other places forced to migrate or die due to changes that he didn't care about and are looking to find those culpable and to hold people accountable for it hold the same understanding disposition. I doubt it. Given all that's happened over the last eightish years, "Not Trump" should be an entirely legit political position on its own and I'm yet to hear a cogent or anywhere convincing argument otherwise.

Well, considering that a lot of Repubs wouldn't fund the healthcare or welfare of the guy fifteen minutes down the road, I guess that's a pretty predictable attitude. Stupidly short-sighted and individualistic, but predictable.

The disparity in wealth and resources between rich and poor in the US is insane. What is truly bizarre is that so many people actually believe something so obviously bullshit that Trump is going to address that inequality on any scale at all.

Possibly not, however a significant part of his voting bloc, enough to set policy and appoint Supreme Court judges, do, so effects are pretty similar. That could well be right. About a hundred years ago there were a lot of voices in the US talking similarly re Europe and the Pacific, it's darkly humorous sometimes how history can be cyclic.

Something I've been mulling over for the moment: In the case of a Trump administration from next January, how should the UK government proceed with cooperation with that administration? Tell him what he wants to hear and do something else? Go the "China-style" route where a leading government is ideologically opposed to a lot of UK values but cooperation with them on some matters is necessary and press those points where needed? Just decide the argument isn't worth the diplomatic capital and roll over?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3wqq6l99w3o Populism and Putin win this one, then.

Depends on the question. If it's "Do you like women as subservient, most ethnic minorities as inherently inferior, LGBT people as an abomination, and your biosphere as expendable?" then he certainly is the answer. Agree with the second sentence, but I fear there will be an end to it - one that will suit practically no one.

Yep, another example of perception and short term thinking overriding facts. If those long term outcomes are worse (and they will be), that thinking and those who bought into it will all be culpable.

I think it's a "when" rather than an "if" on that one. I just wonder how understanding those who will suffer as a result of those and other policy decisions will be of that excuse.

I wish I could view it as entertainment in this way.

Yeah, that's entirely understandable mate, and so am I. Think that came out in my words last night. I can't quite believe that it's come to this. Trump is currently a 55-45 favourite with fivethirtyeight, which is probably the most reliable forecaster. He's certainly been gaining momentum over the last few weeks. Exactly why it's come to this... well, even the best political theorists might have trouble with that one. But for what it's worth, my own take is that skilful manipulation of media, stoking of fears of the other and tapping into the base sentiment of short term self interest has built Trump a cult of personality that hasn't gone away despite inciting a legislative coup attempt, a criminal conviction, and a lost election. Perception has superseded facts. To any sane person, the consequences of him having power again would be enough. But it seems like we don't live in a sane world, and I fear a lot of decent people will pay dearly for that.

And while that should rightly piss anyone vaguely concerned with the future off, I've added an edit above which explains further.

They can be blamed for what's to come if one wishes, there's likely some culpability there. Personally, I'm going to be mostly blaming the hands that actually will have the blood on them, rather than dismissing them as just doing what they do because the other side failed to stop them. Edit: sorry for my own strength of opinion here, but there is zero justification for anyone for bringing Trump back into politics, let alone the top job again, that should stand alone as an argument because it is evidence based true, and I think focusing on what the Dems have done/are doing wrong (as much as it is) is entirely the wrong target and it's tiresome and pointless to see because it further opens the door to the consequences that will ensue and Trump and his followers not being held responsible for them.