leicsmac

Just woke up. I know I'm banging a drum here, but social media has been such a force multiplier for this election - the independents on their Gaza stance and Reform in general have utilised it most effectively, coalescing a movement around one or a few issues and with some slick wording. Lessons for the bigger players to learn, there. Additionally: Still waiting, still interested if any Reform voters might chip in.

I'm asking honestly here, looking for understanding. What exactly about the idea of a party like Reform setting policy is attractive? Is it because the long-term risks (like history showing nationalist governments = conflict, especially when ignoring natural factors that will strain resources increasing that risk of conflict) are not worth thinking about, because they won't happen or because the shorter-term is simply more valuable? Would appreciate some insight.

Yeah, quite possibly. It remains to be seen whether or not that (or a reiteration of Reform, whichever) will perform better at the next election, depending on events.

Two observations: - considering the polls earlier giving Labour a majority of 220-250 (sometimes even more), this exit poll having Starmer not eclipse Blair is interesting - Reform getting 13 seats is either a sign of things to come, or an oncoming storm (part of a much larger one, come to that) that may be avoided in five years time.

Which would, sadly, point to just how successful they are at social media manipulation.

Perhaps not. But perhaps...just enough things.

Just like a dozen other nationalist "leaders" currently seeking power around the world. And it's obvious how that ends - the historical record is clear. The only question would be whether the shooting would start because of mass migration and tension caused by dwindling vital resources in a changed world they chose to ignore, or something else that would start it first. NB. I remember a conversation way back in 2016 about the rise of nationalism on here. A user (think their name was GazzinderFox or somesuch) seemed to think that such nationalism wouldn't lead to widespread conflict. I wonder if they would be so sure of their guess now? Given that appeal for Reform appears to cross age demographic lines, they must be at least appearing to offer youth something. Of course, the above applies where that youth will in all likelihood have a very unpleasant older age indeed if their policies are taken to their logical conclusion.

I hope you're right, I fear you won't be. 2029 will be more of a moment of truth on that score, I think.

I share the same thoughts about the ascendancy of Reform as some others and (as per previous discussion) if they do well this time it will be either total feast or famine next time. However, I do not see how the policies they embody appeal to anyone who has any kind of empathy beyond their line of sight both spatially and temporally. And that's not a moral argument either - pragmatically, short term self interest fvcks everyone long term. That's just causality.

Yeah, about right all really. I hope that Norrie can at least give Zverev a game.

I do hope they anonymised themselves or made it clear that their views are their own then, because otherwise they might be in a spot of bother with the regs.

The pile on might be from partisanship but it might also have a part in the viewpoint being cynical and (this is the important part) presenting a possibly legit problem without presenting a solution for it. Especially when people really want a solution, only forwarding half the equation might piss some folks off. What would be the solution, I wonder.

What odds that whoever wins the Draper-Norrie match goes out in the next round (Draper because fatigue, Norrie because inconsistency)?

But his slick PR moves and online astroturfing campaign across social media says otherwise, and apparently that counts for something.

It would be darkly hilarious if the potential consequences weren't so severe, for everyone.

You're spot on about the nature of the threats, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for some optimism. Because of history, we know how this pathway plays out, so the way I see it is that we don't have to take it. And there's time to bring things back from the brink. NB. Opinion being expressed as fact is a curse on Internet discussion and I wish folks would qualify their remarks more, too.

Because we've had discussions regarding measures to deal with environmental issues and the tax money they may or may not cost before. Obviously agree more trees is a good idea, alongside other measures.

But who paid the tax for it? In all seriousness though, I'm glad that we can hear stories like this right now, makes one think what we've done is reversible in time to stop serious trouble for ourselves and the biosphere.

Amazing stuff. China is moving damn quick in their tech development, for good and bad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9r3g572lrno Hurricane Beryl is wreaking havoc in parts of the Caribbean – and putting the role of climate change under the spotlight. With maximum sustained wind speeds of more than 160mph (257km/h), it became the earliest category five Atlantic hurricane in records going back around 100 years. In fact, there has only been one previous recorded case of a category five Atlantic hurricane in July – Hurricane Emily, on 16 July 2005. The causes of individual storms are complex, making it difficult to fully attribute specific cases to climate change. But exceptionally high sea surface temperatures are seen as a key reason why Hurricane Beryl has been so powerful. Usually, such strong storms only develop later in the season, after the seas have heated up through the summer. Effects - or merely just the start of them - continuing to make themselves felt.

I just hope that folks aren't celebrating too early on that score, seeing as an... upgraded version of that ideology appears to be waiting in the wings.

Martin Allen, natch.

Could well be a bit of both. Goodness knows both Trump (and his backers) and Putin would like a likeminded government in terms of policy in the UK.

I agree. I just hope that it doesn't end up pulled when we're so close to the finish line.

I really hope we can get through the last 48-72 hours of this without the thread getting canned - it's gone well so far.