Balj

Couple of good national anthems have to say. Looking forward to this.

Surprised Rabiot is not in - Upamenco was awful last game so less of a surprise.

My thoughts exactly - very conflicted between wanting a heavyweight final and also wanting Morocco to continue the African dream.

That is some very haphazard warm up from Morocco - no two players doing the same thing at the same time!

Please god no, not Jenas.

Is the final on both BBC and ITV? I need the commentary lineups as well as the finalists.

Argentina still haven't figured out how to line up a defensive wall though .....

Oh yes!!

Don't disagree with you - think it's part of his career winding down so we're unlikely to see him on this kind of stage again. More of a homage from the commentators to his body of work as a footballer rather than the 5 yard pass they use as the stated reason.

There's a tv programme I think where Gruff Rhys of the Super Furry Animals goes to Patagonia to find his family who moved there from Wales generations back.

Thought it was a pen - keeper didn't follow the ball and by standing (and even made himself bigger with his right arm) obstructed. Even standing still can be obstruction, it's just a question of context.

Don't totally understand the hatred of some for Argentina - fascinating country with a historic chip on its shoulder about its location in South America (they think they should be in Europe). Play like that as well but with some wonderful skill - I get they don't go out of their way to make friends but so what. A lot more to like about them than some of the generic and in some cases downright near fascist European countries. If it wasn't for Modric I'd be deeply unhappy supporting some of the views expressed by the nation of Croatia and members of their national team.

That’s my point exactly - our entire system under the FA and Southgate is to produce a formula which runs nicely and efficiently. The equivalent of Champions League qualification each year but not geared to winning the damn thing. I find the praise for Southgate and the camaraderie etc he has created frankly bizarre.

The question I would pose is what do we want the England team to do. Is it to win the WC and/or Euros? If so we need an Ancelotti mindset for the tournament. Or do we want a process manager where we get the end result of a process, like Wenger qualifying for the Champions League endlessly but never winning it - at some statistical level Wenger was incredibly successful like Southgate can be seen to be. Fine if that’s the measure of success. The FA is more inclined to the Wenger model but it doesn’t necessarily bring trophies nor does it being the mindset to absolutely want it enough at big moments. I’ve said it elsewhere but the current England set up is not designed to win the big moments. They may be the better team but not the winners of the big moments in games.

Money is only paid after the game has taken place.

I think there is the Real Madrid factor we are missing - how many times in the Champions League have they just found a way to win. This is the result of a historic collective memory of being winners. England don’t have it, France did. In the big moments they won, England didn’t. Being the better team counts for nothing at the sharp end - when Spain won the WC it was an incredible achievement given their lack of winning history and it would take an achievement of that proportion for England to do it. England have no inbuilt reserve of being winners to tap into at the biggest moments. As an aside, for all the talk of the wonderful midfield players we have, and we do, GK, defence and attack after Kane are worrying. Bellingham, Foden et al are magnificent but not enough given the lack of quality in other areas.

Yep - I’ve always taken it as a bit of a humorous self-jibe not a piece of arrogance. More Python than Jim Davidson.

Below strength and under par - France got away with it with their nous. Griezeman was outstanding - no blame on Kane, but some of Southgate’s sub choices and non-choices were a bit baffling.

Great Argentinian pens so far

Been involved in 7 lost 5

Read Brilliant Orange by David Winner - the Dutch and pens don't go well together!

Contentious I know but I think any tournament is a better tournament when Argentina are still in it.

Netherlands set piece coach is player of the 90 mins

Eff me - what absolute stone balls to do that!!! What a free kick!

scrap, scrap, scrap, scrap