Saints Fan In Peace

Russell's first club as a player... 👀

He'll be bringing in Angus '0-9' Gunn next...

I don't think he had any offers from abroad, to be honest. The only ones I remember were sniffing around for a bit were WBA, but they went for Morrison in the end.

Totally valid point to make, but at that time our Director of Football (Wilcox) had left for United a few months previously, and he wasn't replaced until the following season, so Martin had a much more hands-on role with recruitment that summer. They created a transfer committee made up of him, a couple of (unqualified) board members and the head of recruitment. To be totally fair to him, it wasn't the most stable environment, but it did mean he was heavily involved in deciding who came in. They brought in a lot of players - 16 - but most just weren't up to the necessary standard, and Martin later admitted (in the podcast interview with Lineker IIRC) that he had underestimated the pace and athleticism that was required in the PL. But they were 'his players', brought in by him to play his way.

Quite. Which is why McCarthy was a truly mystifying signing, especially as his no. 1. At Saints he had no trust in him at all — he didn't even have him on the bench, he dropped him to third choice for most of the season.

Bearing in mind that: At Southampton, in his Premier League season he had Premier League promotion levels of money available (circa £130m in the first season to promoted teams), was allowed to bring in 16 players that summer, and built a completely uncompetitive team which got humiliated every week until he was sacked and At Rangers, he was at a club with 5x-8x the spending power of every other club in the division except one, was allowed to bring in 14 players, and had them in 8th place out of 12 when he was sacked ...it does make me wonder what club he would need to be at, and what resources they would need to have available, for him to be able to get the players he feels he needs for his style of football to actually work.

It was. People point to him getting us promoted as the high point of his career but a) we came fourth with a squad that should have been in the automatics, because we leaked hundreds of goals, and b) the disaster that was Bazunu (who Russ loved) got injured and the keeper who replaced him in the play-offs was so utterly useless with his feet* that the players had no choice but to stop pissing around at the back, go against the manager’s instructions and go direct. (Which makes Martin’s decision to now sign him and put him straight in as first choice even more unfathomable. McCarthy is simply not capable of playing out and never will be.)

It looks great when it works, there's no doubt about that. The challenge at this level will come when the opposition don't come out and press so you can't pass round them, and instead just put 10 men behind the ball in their own third, let you have the ball and say 'go on then, break us down'. You may see a lot of that from the much smaller clubs you're going to play against who will be delighted to come away with a point against the biggest club in the division. It's a big part of what happened at Rangers. Too many draws where he couldn't break down teams who parked the bus like Motherwell, Dundee, Falkirk and St Mirren, albeit with a fanbase up there who literally demanded to win every single game, given their size and history. When it got too much into the realms of what they saw as side-to-side, backwards, horseshoe football against inferior opposition they just wouldn't tolerate it. But you won't be the first team who has to find ways to break down a packed defence, although the approach might test your patience on occasion and you may occasionally hear the words 'just get it forward'. If he's genuinely tweaked his system to crack that aspect of it, then you'll do very well.

As there seems to be a bit of a feelgood factor starting to develop I was going to keep quiet as I don't want to annoy anyone or piss on anyone's bonfire. But since you asked - being liked internally isn't the problem. By all accounts he was very popular with the players and staff at Saints too, they thought he was great - or they certainly seemed to at first. That's partly down to the fact that he is unusually touchy feely for a manager (gushes a lot about loving his players, everything being so beautiful and so on), but also that he properly loves being one of the boys (the extended interview he gave on Lineker's podcast just before he took the Rangers job gives a good insight into that) and he treats everyone like his best mate, and there were also a fair number of rumours that he didn't work them particularly hard (lots of days off training etc). He's a 'call me Russ' guy, and little things like having your fit glamour model girlfriend walk into the players lounge probably don't hurt either when you're trying to impress footballers. That's not the issue. The problems in the past have always come because he only has one way of playing and coaching, and when it fails, on the surface he pretends to take responsibility but in reality he is just blaming everyone else. That's when his stubbornness and the way he talks can rub people up the wrong way. In those situations he can come across as smug, dismissive and patronising, which can get very grating, especially when you can see with your eyes that it isn't working but he insists it is, or he keeps saying that success is always just around the corner and it would all be fine if people just did what he told them to do. Quoting possession stats as a benchmark of success (we once had 79% possession in a game against Sunderland which we lost 5-0) and coming out with stuff like 'I'd rather lose playing beautifully than win ugly' don't go down particularly well when you're getting humiliated every week either (like we were under him in the Prem). Basically, if you're winning games, you'll like him like you would any manager who is getting results. But if you're not, he's probably going to annoy people more than the average joe because of his tendency to gaslight and deflect rather than ever admit his 'philosophy' may be anything less than perfect. He is unquestionably a smooth talker, but that can start to sound like snake oil when it's not being backed up by results. So enjoy the honeymoon period, give him a chance, and everyone deserves a fair crack of the whip IMO. The proof of the pudding will come when the season starts and the pressure is on, and then you'll be able to judge for yourselves whether what he insists is happening actually bears any resemblance to what you see with your own eyes taking place on the pitch. Edit: Just saw that Chelmofox put it much more succinctly

How about Bazunu as well, to provide competition?

I hate to tell you this, but it was Macca who was in goal when we actually managed to lose 9-0 *again* the following season https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55806211 He is decent though, I promise. Way better than Gunn and Bazunu and has played for England. Solid signing on a free.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/mccarthy-reportedly-set-join-former-120100263.html Slightly odd one, as Martin dropped him down to third choice with us because he can't play out. Experienced cover maybe? But overall, a very decent signing on a free if true. Macca's not perfect, but he's ten times better than Bazunu.

Yeah he did. He got injured just before the play-offs and a lot of people still say that’s why we got promoted. Not just because the keeper who came in (McCarthy) was a far better shot stopper (which he was, despite having been third choice all season), but also because McCarthy was actually a lot *worse* with his feet than Bazunu, which meant we had no choice but to ditch the suicidal tippy tappy crap in our own box which had cost us so many soft goals all season, and instead just started clearing the lines and going more direct, something which Martin had previously refused ever to do. After it was forced on him we became much more defensively secure, ended up grinding out a 1-0 victory in the play off final, and got promoted.

It was mind-boggling, tbh. Bazunu was given yet another chance last year under another manager, and it just proved again that he's not even good enough for a top half Championship side. Martin obviously liked him because he's useful with his feet and he needs that in his system because so much of the build-up play starts between the keeper and the centre backs, but that becomes something of an irrelevance if you never save any shots. Bazunu converted from an outfield player to become a keeper quite late in his professional development, and it shows. He just doesn't move or hold himself like a proper goalkeeper does. Consistently out of position, very slow reactions and can't judge the flight of a ball to save his life. Fortunately, since we signed Peretz (who is exceptional for Championship level), it looks like his time with us is finally coming to an end. Given how many former Saints players seem to end up with you, and how much Martin seemed to like him, there was a lot of initial speculation that Martin might come in for him, but I wouldn't wish that on you. Derby were sniffing around a week or so ago so hopefully they take him, maybe in a two for the price of one deal with Brereton Diaz because he's shocking as well. Danny Ings might be interesting though if that one comes off. He was absolute quality for us, just great movement and a deadly finisher. Obviously he's older now and the question will be what shape he's in physically, but if you can keep him fit, and he's still got the motivation, then even if it's just coming off the bench for the last 25 mins he could be a very astute signing if you get runners around him. He's a great pro as well.

It will be very interesting to see if gets your boys fit. Because with us, we had all the YouTube nonsense for the cameras and endless guff from him about how they were (quote) ‘training like beasts’, but when the actual matches started it was clear we had the most unfit side most of us could remember. Everyone gassed after 70 mins. Because he was so keen to be popular and seen as one of the lads he was regularly giving them days off training, even when we were getting smashed every week in the Prem, and it was clear as day we were in poor shape physically as well as tactically. Also look at the photos of the state he allowed Joe Rothwell to be in at Rangers. Two stone overweight and he still started him because he signed him and they’re mates. But hopefully he’s finally started to learn and adapt.

Hi all. I come in peace. Just dipped in to see where you all were on the Russell Martin continuum. Have you reached the point yet where he starts doing interviews and people start saying 'actually, he talks really well, maybe I was wrong about him, this could be quite good'? It's the step that usually comes just after 'widespread outrage at the appointment' and just before 'concerning pre-season results caused by gifting the ball in dangerous areas get waved away as 'a natural part of the learning process'. Joking aside though, it will be very interesting to see how he gets on. If he's learned just a tiny bit of humility and willingness to adapt when the circumstances require it, then he might surprise you and you could actually have a very good season to look forward to. If however he's still as exasperatingly stubborn as he's been everywhere else, then you probably know what to expect. Either way, I wish you luck. He gets a lot of stick but there are also some Saints fans who rate him for the promotion season. I'm not personally one of them, but they do exist.