ClaphamFox

PSR rules were voted in during the 2013/14 season when we were in the Championship, so we didn't have a say in the decision.

Indeed. I wonder how many unanswered voicemails we've left on the PL's switchboard over the past few days...

Did it sound like he believes that is an option open to us?

Almost as opposite as Graham Potter and Steve Cooper.

It is true that the PL was only able to pursue us for 23/24 because the EFL had started the investigation into that year. It's also clear that because of the recent rule change, the PL can pass jurisdiction on future cases to the EFL and vice versa if a team is relegated or promoted. What's not yet clear is whether the recent rule change can be applied retroactively or not. Does the fact that the EFL had started an investigation into us during 2023/24 mean that the PL can not only gain jurisdiction over us for that year, but also pass that jurisdiction back to the EFL - or did the latter only become possible with the recent rule change, and hence may not apply to us? Most of the media seem to think it can be passed back to the EFL, but Kieran Maguire is adamant that it can't.

So do I, but now I'm starting to wonder if I was just naïve and they really are that stupid...

That mechanism exists now, but it didn't exist at the time we breached. So it goes back to the question of whether the rule change can be imposed retroactively...

Can those changes made last month be applied retroactively? That seems to be the crux of the matter...

Yes, but as that season falls within the PL's jurisdiction, the PL can only impose a punishment while we're in the PL - at least according to Maguire.

They won't wake up. So we'd just be the same club with the same hierarchy, except with a points deduction. I don't see that as a win.

No, the PL has jurisdiction over that season because we became a PL club before the end of the accounting period. That's why they have been able to charge us for that period. Yes, they've closed the loophole but Maguire seems to believe it won't apply in our case. He didn't really explain why, but I assume it's because he thinks that rule change cannot be imposed retroactively. I have no idea whether Maguire is correct, especially given that pretty much everybody else has been saying the opposite. But given his status as the leading expert on this stuff, it would be a weird thing for him to get so wrong...

Sure, but IF Maguire is correct, that won't matter because, according to him, the PL cannot impose a points deduction while we're in the Championship. So they'd have to retrospectively move us down from 18th to 19th (assuming we finish in 18th) or, as @teblin says, wait until we're back in the PL...

On Radio Leicester this morning Kieran Maguire said, very explicitly, that the PL can only impose a points deduction on us this season, effectively forcing us from 18th to 19th place - ie, they cannot force us to start next season with a points deduction. This contradicts what pretty much all media outlets were reporting yesterday. Now I really am confused...

He’s just mindlessly parroting the Athletic article, which hints that we will be punished for fighting back in the past but conveniently neglects to mention how this can happen given that we won those cases. Unfortunately we’ve entered the silly season that always follows a PSR charge in which the media speculates about potential points deductions without having a clue about what will actually happen.

If accounts aren’t submitted before 31 December, sanctions can’t be levied in the same season. So presumably we deliberately delayed submitting our accounts for FY24 in the hope that we’d survive this season, strengthen in the summer and deal with any points deduction next season when the squad is in better shape. Unfortunately our relegation this season means that little ruse has backfired spectacularly.

Not with our defenders, he wouldn't. That was an impossible task.

This is the thing that has shocked me the most. It means that as recently as a few months ago, with all of our history of PSR issues, we were still breaching rules in a completely unnecessary way by submitting our accounts late. I mean you'd think we'd have learned our lesson by that point and would have tried to keep on the PL's good side by meeting a simple deadline, but apparently even that was beyond us.

The media seems convinced that can't happen now, but then again the media said we wouldn't be charged for 23/24, so....

This is quite a good summary from Jordan Blackwell in the Mercury: https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/point-deduction-transfers-dewsbury-hall-10198770 This part seems particularly important: "With the sale of Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall and the compensation received for Enzo Maresca’s move to Chelsea, the feeling at City was that they would be close to meeting the loss threshold, and so they should not be too far over the limit. "The precedent set by the Everton and Nottingham Forest cases is that a PSR breach leads to a three-point deduction, with a further point taken off for every £6.5m over the loss threshold. However, City are not dealing with one charge, but three. They're also alleged to have failed to provide their accounts before December 31, and failed to "provide full, complete and prompt assistance in response to the league's enquiries".

Yes.

I understand the argument you're making. I'm just pointing out that it runs contrary to what pretty much all experts have said about the FV24 period (ie that it was very tight and that we either narrowly breached or narrowly avoided a breach). And I assume they'd have made their calculations based on estimated add-backs.

It seems that way - various media reports suggest that the proceedings against us for that period have concluded and we can't be punished for it. The 23/24 period is a puzzle. The view at the time seemed to be that it was very tight but the KDH and Enzo money might have just keep us the right side of a breach. Now we know that didn't happen, but we have no idea what level of breach it was. And we probably won't find out for a while yet.

The latter.

It's not clear, but judging from the club's statement we're not challenging the PL's jurisdiction to charge us over FY24. So presumably the legal arguments have already taken place and we've lost that one.

Oh yes. That's why I think the club will end up sticking with RVN next season.