Population-1 Posted 3 September 2005 Share Posted 3 September 2005 The most successful Institutions and MNE's in the world are those that have very clearly defined and agreed risk assessment methodologies in place and advocate the advantages of organic growth. Why am I telling you this? It all comes down to the same principle, the scourge of the commercial sector and wider society - short-termism. The quest for the quick buck. I am not going to sit here criticising those who are already calling for Levein's head, as that would be tantamount to focusing the camera on the match streaker. I would be handing the limelight to the village idiot who is resorting to shock value in order to gain some attention. All I will say however is that the vast majority of this forum do clearly have informed comments and a sense of perspective. We are not in the strongest bracket of teams in the division at the moment, thats a fact. So this stigma hovering over the clubs head with relation to promotion needs to be vanquished immediately. Promotion is the tangible barometer of success maybe, but what is far FAR more important is seeing an improvement in the health of the football club and playing personnel. This we have seen over the last year without a doubt. The panic surrounding the loss of the parachute payments at the end of the season also needs to be quelled somewhat. Perhaps if our total salary expenditure was 70-75% of turnover I would be concerned by this. As it happens, Tim Davies et al have set about removing this obstacle so should we not manage to return to the promised land come May it doesn't mean the club hits the buffers. Admittedly, I would rather see less of the flimsy marketing initiatives thrown at us from official sectors at the club, but this is an inevitable result of 21st Century football 'management'. The fastrack method to promotion would be to loan a number of premiership reserves frustrated at their lack of first team action and then plunge your remaining transfer budget into coughing up tempting salaries for players in their 30's who prefer the offer of a two year Championship contract than one year Premiership. The perfect example being Sheffield United. Neil Warnock knows (even if it has not been made explicit to him) that he has one final opportunity to gain promotion this year. Therefore, he has taken the easy route of buying in the Unsworth's, Short's, Shipperley's of this world who may overpower some teams, but inevitably will get you nowhere longer term. Do you really imagine that those three players will still be at the club come 2006-07 if they are starting out in the Premiership? This all rather echo's MA's time at the club, who I would defend as a marvellous coach and man during his time with us, but who fell foul of the quick financial fix. He was just unfortunate to land the job in the aftermath of the misguided financial and playing management of Taylor and the Directors at the time. Patience is the key here. If we all want to see the club rocket and plummet between the top two tiers of English football then fine, lets go hell for leather and allow ourselves a return to the days of 60% annual player turnover. I for one would rather see us plough our time and limited funds into a batch of younger players, on longer contracts, who are going to be here for the long haul. We may lose a few to bigger fish in the interim period, but that is a risk worth taking in my view. Levein is still adjusting to the league, we have a squad still acclimatising to one another and a totally revamped back and front line. We cannot expect to roll teams over. This is why I was not too perturbed by the transfer activity in midweek. Disappointing as it was to see Connolly move on, we now have greater financial stability and a younger average squad age. Ian Hume will also prove to be an astute purchase. Gone are the days when we can bump up a transfer fee by £1m in order to close a deal sadly, and a return of £1.2m in a week is now massive for the club. So bring on Sheffield Wednesday and lets get behind the side and the manager and enjoy the dawning of a new LCFC. One that may frustrate us at times, may not finish in the top six, may not brush aside teams as we once did. But one that will develop together and improve as the squad settles. Levein has brought us a long way in the last year, perhaps not in league standing, but certainly in the long term outlook for the side. Its a long-term investment, and if you haven't the patience then go watching the Sheff United's or Portsmouth's of this world. I for one am proud to follow a team that believes in growing organically, with carefully balanced purchases that will improve over time rather than provide a season's 'quick fix'. To finish on an analogy, who would we rather be? The LLoydsTSB of this world that looks to increase its market capitalisation over time through carefully scrutinised and co-ordinated credit risk management portfolio's or Barings who gambled virtually their entire asset value on the roll of a dice (albeit unknowingly)? We may not gain mass media coverage by taking the former route, but rather that then allowing the pressures of stakeholders to drive your club to the brink of ruin. Apologies this has turned into a minor thesis, I just feel we are already in danger from some quarters of the plague that is short-termism. Remember, just as often as that roulette wheel can land on red, its also just as likely to finish on black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gené and Tonic Posted 3 September 2005 Share Posted 3 September 2005 one word: wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 3 September 2005 Share Posted 3 September 2005 Articulate way of saying what has been mostly said before and although I would certainly never nominate Mickey Adams as one of Gods Gifts to Coaching it is nice to know that we have another forum member who can recognise the sense of CL's longterm strategy and who sounds as if he will be patient enough to see it evolve.. Look forward to your next discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cisono Posted 3 September 2005 Share Posted 3 September 2005 Talking about short stuff, I could not bring myself to reading the whole post, as it was not short enough... sorry! Thracian: Thanks for the summary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Population-1 Posted 3 September 2005 Author Share Posted 3 September 2005 Kinda did get carried away, in an nutshell.....support Levein as he is showing signs of becoming a very good manager for this wonderful football club.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lush Posted 3 September 2005 Share Posted 3 September 2005 Kinda did get carried away, in an nutshell.....support Levein as he is showing signs of becoming a very good manager for this wonderful football club.... ABSOLUTELY SECONDED!! I hope the short term (we must win yesterday, and earlier if possible) fans can learn this. Lets hope they become a population of 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof Fox Posted 3 September 2005 Share Posted 3 September 2005 Top post Population 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longy Posted 3 September 2005 Share Posted 3 September 2005 In Levein we trust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lush Posted 3 September 2005 Share Posted 3 September 2005 Watched the poland austria game. A austrian striker came on, youngish bloke and scored 2 goals playing really well. Does anyone know anything else about him, possible city target? We do have mill half to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hullfox Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 ABSOLUTELY SECONDED!! I hope the short term (we must win yesterday, and earlier if possible) fans can learn this. Lets hope they become a population of 1 I must be going a bit senile in my advancing years. I thought it was Lush who said that we need to win and play well against Sheff Weds. Isn't that the epitome of short termism? Great post Population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cisono Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 I must be going a bit senile in my advancing years. I thought it was Lush who said that we need to win and play well against Sheff Weds. Isn't that the epitome of short termism? Great post Population. You're not senile yet My first guess would be "different interpretations"? ... I'll have a look around later and let you know if I find a better explanation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 Watched the poland austria game. A austrian striker came on, youngish bloke and scored 2 goals playing really well. Does anyone know anything else about him, possible city target? We do have mill half to spend. The player you're talking about is Roland Linz. Twenty-four, plays for Austria Vienna. We don't have 1.5 million to spend. We probably just have a few hundred thousand, which we won't spend until the close season in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lush Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 I must be going a bit senile in my advancing years. I thought it was Lush who said that we need to win and play well against Sheff Weds. Isn't that the epitome of short termism? Great post Population. No, i said we need to win or draw and play well. Long term success, doesnt mean we capitulate now what kind of a basis is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lush Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 The player you're talking about is Roland Linz. Twenty-four, plays for Austria Vienna. We don't have 1.5 million to spend. We probably just have a few hundred thousand, which we won't spend until the close season in my opinion. On sky, im sure they said robert linz. Anyway, we have i.5m from the sale of connolly. But i agree, we probably wont spend it yet, until were desperate perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 On sky, im sure they said robert linz. Anyway, we have i.5m from the sale of connolly. But i agree, we probably wont spend it yet, until were desperate perhaps. As we all know, not all the money from Connolly's sale is available for transfers. The very fact that we want to get away from short-termism and build for the future, means we will wisely use some of Connolly's sale money to cut debts and build a more sound financial base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lush Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 As we all know, not all the money from Connolly's sale is available for transfers. When did the club say that mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 On sky, im sure they said robert linz. Anyway, we have i.5m from the sale of connolly. But i agree, we probably wont spend it yet, until were desperate perhaps. We got 2 million for Connolly, 725k of which we have already spent on Elvis and Hume. That could rise to 1.075 million so I expect we've left the extra on the side just in case. Which leaves us with 925k. Now subtract from that the agents fees which haven't been mentioned in the press, the possibility of a loyalty bonus for Connolly, and the extra wages that could be needed for taking on two new players rather than the one we got rid of, the sell-on clause that might have existed with West Ham and I'd imagine we've only made 500k profit. Now than 500k could rise to 1.5 million if Wigan stay up but how likely is that? Even if we got that extra million CL wouldn't have that much to spend as in the close season as our wage budget is being cut by another 2 million and our crowds this season haven't been as predicted so most of that 1.5 will probably go into next season's wages so we don't have to sell people. This is of course if we've not promoted, if we're not promoted then we won't have to pay extra for Elvis and Hume so that 375k will probably be given to CL to spend in the close season. So my prediction is that CL will have about 400k to spend in the close season. (lots of speculative stuff in there of course!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 Oh, and that's a prediction on if we do nothing this year. If we get a cup run or get into the playoffs but lose of course we'll have some more money from that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lush Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 We got 2 million for Connolly, 725k of which we have already spent on Elvis and Hume. That could rise to 1.075 million so I expect we've left the extra on the side just in case. Which leaves us with 925k. Now subtract from that the agents fees which haven't been mentioned in the press, the possibility of a loyalty bonus for Connolly, and the extra wages that could be needed for taking on two new players rather than the one we got rid of, the sell-on clause that might have existed with West Ham and I'd imagine we've only made 500k profit. Now than 500k could rise to 1.5 million if Wigan stay up but how likely is that? Even if we got that extra million CL wouldn't have that much to spend as in the close season as our wage budget is being cut by another 2 million and our crowds this season haven't been as predicted so most of that 1.5 will probably go into next season's wages so we don't have to sell people. This is of course if we've not promoted, if we're not promoted then we won't have to pay extra for Elvis and Hume so that 375k will probably be given to CL to spend in the close season. So my prediction is that CL will have about 400k to spend in the close season. (lots of speculative stuff in there of course!) Its all doom and gloom someone always has to spoil a bright sunday morning I hear ya, but i think CL wouldnt do a deal that left him short for funds. I`d suggest HE`S left with atleast a million to spend now. yes i know there possible agents fees etc, but there not certain deals in football, its all negotiation stuff. As i say, i dont think CL will wana be short changed from this sale. WIGAN, WIGAN, WIGAN, WIGAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 I wouldn't say he has been short changed, 1.125- to spend on players (725k already spent) and the rest to go into our debts to hopefilly make sure we don't need to sell anyone at the end of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 4 September 2005 Share Posted 4 September 2005 On sky, im sure they said robert linz. Anyway, we have i.5m from the sale of connolly. But i agree, we probably wont spend it yet, until were desperate perhaps. This is just typical Lush-style. You have no idea what you are talking about. We signed Hume and Hammond for a total of 1.1 million. This sum can rise up to 1.5 million if we do well this season (=promotion). So, by doing a simple math: 2.000.000 pounds from the Connolly switch Minus 750.000 for Hume Minus 350.000 for Hammond = 900.000 pounds left (maximum) This money will be used to pay off club debts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 5 September 2005 Share Posted 5 September 2005 The most successful Institutions and MNE's in the world are those that have very clearly defined and agreed risk assessment methodologies in place and advocate the advantages of organic growth. Why am I telling you this? It all comes down to the same principle, the scourge of the commercial sector and wider society - short-termism. The quest for the quick buck. I am not going to sit here criticising those who are already calling for Levein's head, as that would be tantamount to focusing the camera on the match streaker. I would be handing the limelight to the village idiot who is resorting to shock value in order to gain some attention. All I will say however is that the vast majority of this forum do clearly have informed comments and a sense of perspective. We are not in the strongest bracket of teams in the division at the moment, thats a fact. So this stigma hovering over the clubs head with relation to promotion needs to be vanquished immediately. Promotion is the tangible barometer of success maybe, but what is far FAR more important is seeing an improvement in the health of the football club and playing personnel. This we have seen over the last year without a doubt. The panic surrounding the loss of the parachute payments at the end of the season also needs to be quelled somewhat. Perhaps if our total salary expenditure was 70-75% of turnover I would be concerned by this. As it happens, Tim Davies et al have set about removing this obstacle so should we not manage to return to the promised land come May it doesn't mean the club hits the buffers. Admittedly, I would rather see less of the flimsy marketing initiatives thrown at us from official sectors at the club, but this is an inevitable result of 21st Century football 'management'. The fastrack method to promotion would be to loan a number of premiership reserves frustrated at their lack of first team action and then plunge your remaining transfer budget into coughing up tempting salaries for players in their 30's who prefer the offer of a two year Championship contract than one year Premiership. The perfect example being Sheffield United. Neil Warnock knows (even if it has not been made explicit to him) that he has one final opportunity to gain promotion this year. Therefore, he has taken the easy route of buying in the Unsworth's, Short's, Shipperley's of this world who may overpower some teams, but inevitably will get you nowhere longer term. Do you really imagine that those three players will still be at the club come 2006-07 if they are starting out in the Premiership? This all rather echo's MA's time at the club, who I would defend as a marvellous coach and man during his time with us, but who fell foul of the quick financial fix. He was just unfortunate to land the job in the aftermath of the misguided financial and playing management of Taylor and the Directors at the time. Patience is the key here. If we all want to see the club rocket and plummet between the top two tiers of English football then fine, lets go hell for leather and allow ourselves a return to the days of 60% annual player turnover. I for one would rather see us plough our time and limited funds into a batch of younger players, on longer contracts, who are going to be here for the long haul. We may lose a few to bigger fish in the interim period, but that is a risk worth taking in my view. Levein is still adjusting to the league, we have a squad still acclimatising to one another and a totally revamped back and front line. We cannot expect to roll teams over. This is why I was not too perturbed by the transfer activity in midweek. Disappointing as it was to see Connolly move on, we now have greater financial stability and a younger average squad age. Ian Hume will also prove to be an astute purchase. Gone are the days when we can bump up a transfer fee by £1m in order to close a deal sadly, and a return of £1.2m in a week is now massive for the club. So bring on Sheffield Wednesday and lets get behind the side and the manager and enjoy the dawning of a new LCFC. One that may frustrate us at times, may not finish in the top six, may not brush aside teams as we once did. But one that will develop together and improve as the squad settles. Levein has brought us a long way in the last year, perhaps not in league standing, but certainly in the long term outlook for the side. Its a long-term investment, and if you haven't the patience then go watching the Sheff United's or Portsmouth's of this world. I for one am proud to follow a team that believes in growing organically, with carefully balanced purchases that will improve over time rather than provide a season's 'quick fix'. To finish on an analogy, who would we rather be? The LLoydsTSB of this world that looks to increase its market capitalisation over time through carefully scrutinised and co-ordinated credit risk management portfolio's or Barings who gambled virtually their entire asset value on the roll of a dice (albeit unknowingly)? We may not gain mass media coverage by taking the former route, but rather that then allowing the pressures of stakeholders to drive your club to the brink of ruin. Apologies this has turned into a minor thesis, I just feel we are already in danger from some quarters of the plague that is short-termism. Remember, just as often as that roulette wheel can land on red, its also just as likely to finish on black. One of the best posts i've ever read. Very fluent and I agree with almost every word except that Micky Adams bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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