Sins of our fathers

[The Doctor]

3 hours ago, Dorkingfox said:

I'll give you that, but what I was saying is the football fan is changing, the younger/newer fans, they are expecting more for their money and expect quicker results in terms of achievements and because they are now supporting a much wealthier club, they expect the club to spend money to buy success. How long will they stay around watching the turgid games likes those against Fulham, Palace and Brighton, probably not long? If the games become better like those against Man City then whether we like it or not the fan base will increase.

Then those fans are no great loss and won't stick around unless we become like Man City last season. If they see a couple of bad games from a midtable side and give up, they aren't fans.

[smudgerfox]

The problem which lies at the heart of the “glass half full”, “support Puel” approach is as follows.

 

if you accept that LCFC are a club which should be grateful to be upper mid-table then you have to ask, what of the players who have stayed because we “are trying to build something here?” Are they being taken for mugs? How long will it take the likes of Maddison, Chilwell, Barnes, Pereira, never mind Schmeichel and Maguire, to realise the club and th manager is satisfied to coast mid-table and decide to move elsewhere to achieve the understandable desire to play in Europe? How many young talents want to sign for a club aspiring to be 9th - maybe 7th on a good season? It goes against everything Vichai was trying to achieve.

 

Most Puel supporters seem to assume that Puel is changing playing style to make it more likely the club will push on and realise higher ambitions. But let’s not forget we didn’t just win the league by ten points, we went to a CL quarter final and gave Atletico a run for their money the following season. There wasn’t much wrong with that team in my view. We are literally nowhere near emulating these achievements now - even though the nucleus of that squad remains available to the current manager. 

 

So being satisfied with mid-table is okay for a while, if you can detect a more potent squad emerging from the changes. I simply don’t see signs of that at all. Puels team remains inconsistent, disjointed and confused. It is quite unfathomable how any manager could hope to succeed with a squad which has just two out and out strikers and enough central midfielders and centre halves for three PL teams. Yet Puel embarked on this season with that squad and has repeatedly said since he sees no need to change it.

 

The other aspect of the mid-table mentality is where does it leave supporters? What is there to look forward to each season?   Puel has already passed up on the chance to pursue a Europa League spot and Cup glory in favour of league position. So we’re roughly where Mark Hughes had Stoke, playing boring football to secure a mid table finish with complete indifference to the Cup competitions. Wow! When can I renew my season tickets?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 31 December 2018 by smudgerfox

[The Doctor]

23 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

But let’s not forget we didn’t just win the league by ten points, we went to a CL quarter final and gave Atletico a run for their money the following season. There wasn’t much wrong with that team in my view. 

I can suggest something wrong - average age of 28 and a half when the title was won, pulled down by Mahrez and Kante who we weren't going to be able to keep, and they were pretty awful in the league the following season. We can't hold ourselves to a season that no-one expected to happen with a team at their peak then. As for nucleus of that side - 4 of 11 have left, 2 of which were the 3 best players in that side and the engine room has gone.

[smudgerfox]

But my point is that Puel has a better inheritance than most managers in the mid table - there are far worse places to start from and in over a year all he’s done is produce dull boring football, unexceptional results - apart from the recent Chelsea (a) and Man City (h) - and no sense that the club is moving significantly forward. To have landed a Europa League place would have provided that as would a longer Cup run, but he turned his back on all those opportunities...so what are we left with? The hope that one day the style will click, all will become clear, and the team will transform. 

[Gubbins]

23 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

But my point is that Puel has a better inheritance than most managers in the mid table - there are far worse places to start from and in over a year all he’s done is produce dull boring football, unexceptional results - apart from the recent Chelsea (a) and Man City (h) - and no sense that the club is moving significantly forward. To have landed a Europa League place would have provided that as would a longer Cup run, but he turned his back on all those opportunities...so what are we left with? The hope that one day the style will click, all will become clear, and the team will transform. 

His inheritance makes it really difficult for him to significantly move us forward though. He inherited a team that was midtable standard despite being at the time struggling at the bottom. Got us into upper midtable and has remained there pretty much ever since. 

 

The line that 'we only moved forward as a club under Pearson' gets trotted out quite often on here and whilst it's true, it was a lot easier for him as he had to move us forward first from the third tier and then second time round from midtable championship. There's loads of room to move forward in both cases. For Puel to move us forward he's gotta break into the top 6 of the premiership and keep us there. Not to state the obvious but that's really f***ing difficult and probably beyond him and any other manager we could attract! He shouldn't be sacked for struggling to achieve this.

Edited 31 December 2018 by Gubbins

[smudgerfox]

9 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

For Puel to move us forward he's gotta break into the top 6 of the premiership and keep us there. Not to state the obvious but that's really f***ing difficult and probably beyond him and any other manager we could attract! He shouldn't be sacked for struggling to achieve this.

So let’s strap ourselves in for a thrilling ride between 7th and 14th, crap football and our best players slowly departing...Vichai would be really proud of us...

[Gubbins]

53 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

So let’s strap ourselves in for a thrilling ride between 7th and 14th, crap football and our best players slowly departing...Vichai would be really proud of us...

So what's the alternative? Keep sacking managers for not finishing top 6 hoping we find one that does? Were more likely to end up relegated doing that

Edited 31 December 2018 by Gubbins

[katieakita]

So what is the answer Everton have spent around £200 million to move up from around 7th to around 7th, £200 million to stay still so what do people want we have lost top quality players like Kante and Mahrez, they will be hard for the very best to replace let alone a mid table team. We have reduced the squad age by around 7-8 years and have more young potential than ever and a capacity increase and a training complex 2nd to none in the world. Plenty of other teams and fans also think they should be top 6 challengers and play the beautiful game like Brazil sadly that cannot happen for every team. Everybody has a plan and an idea of how to get us to the next level on here but if we were that good we would be Managers and working for football clubs not Fans happy or unhappy with Leicester City. 

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, katieakita said:

So what is the answer Everton have spent around £200 million to move up from around 7th to around 7th, £200 million to stay still so what do people want we have lost top quality players like Kante and Mahrez, they will be hard for the very best to replace let alone a mid table team. We have reduced the squad age by around 7-8 years and have more young potential than ever and a capacity increase and a training complex 2nd to none in the world. Plenty of other teams and fans also think they should be top 6 challengers and play the beautiful game like Brazil sadly that cannot happen for every team. Everybody has a plan and an idea of how to get us to the next level on here but if we were that good we would be Managers and working for football clubs not Fans happy or unhappy with Leicester City. 

I looked at the team on Saturday and couldn't help wondering how good the team would be if we were able to put Kante, Drinkwater and Mahrez in there. The reality is the replacements haven't worked.