Home Electrics Help needed (again)

[davieG]

I seem to be having a week of weird happenings.

 

I wanted to replace a mains socket, now I'm reasonably ok with house electrics but this has got me stumped.

 

I found the Consumer unit and unfortunately none of the trips are labelled.

 

I've tried them all but none of them disconnect the ring

 

This is a picture of the unit, anyone got any ideas

 

 

 

As an aside I've got a fan with lamp in the conservatory that has a remote control which I've never got working, having switched everything off  the lamp is now on permanently but that's for another day.

[The Syrup]

The ring main should be the 32A breaker with 2 live wires going into the bottom, it's located next to the main switch in that photo

[davieG]

7 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

The ring main should be the 32A breaker with 2 live wires going into the bottom, it's located next to the main switch in that photo

Which is what I assumed but none of them apart from the main switch disconnects the ring. I will try again after the Football.  Thanks 

[The Syrup]

The 4 breakers on the right are 6A so will be lighting circuits probably, 4 in the middle are 16A, then 1 32A on the left. Ring mains should be 32A. May need to get someone in to check if someone's been wiring sockets to other circuits in the past.

[The Syrup]

I wonder if your ring main has been wired by mistake into 2 different breakers, ie 1 leg into the 32A, other into a 16A breaker, so switching one breaker means the ring is still connected to the other one. Maybe try combinations of switching off breakers. Would make sense if the main switch kills the socket but doing the breakers individually doesn't. Either way it will need checking by a professional. Good luck.

Edited 25 September 2021 by The Syrup

[The Syrup]

10 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

I wonder if your ring main has been wired by mistake into 2 different breakers, ie 1 leg into the 32A, other into a 16A breaker, so switching one breaker means the ring is still connected to the other one. Maybe try combinations of switching off breakers. Would make sense if the main switch kills the socket but doing the breakers individually doesn't. Either way it will need checking by a professional. Good luck.

The 4 16A breakers could be going to sockets on a radial circuit, ie one way and not a ring.

[davieG]

2 hours ago, The Syrup said:

The 4 16A breakers could be going to sockets on a radial circuit, ie one way and not a ring.

You may be correct.

 

So far I've managed to work out that if I switch off the 32amp (with the 2 wires) with the 5th 16a (the extreme right one) then it disconnects my oven, lounge sockets, not checked them all, 2 bedrooms sockets (2 bed bungalow) and the ceiling fan/light in the conservatory. Will probably need to check all the sockets and try to find out what the other 3 16amp ones are for. 

 

Is this an acceptable set up?

[The Syrup]

23 minutes ago, davieG said:

You may be correct.

 

So far I've managed to work out that if I switch off the 32amp (with the 2 wires) with the 5th 16a (the extreme right one) then it disconnects my oven, lounge sockets, not checked them all, 2 bedrooms sockets (2 bed bungalow) and the ceiling fan/light in the conservatory. Will probably need to check all the sockets and try to find out what the other 3 16amp ones are for. 

 

Is this an acceptable set up?

I'm not a sparky but pretty sure an oven should be on its own radial circuit, ie cable direct to oven with nothing else connected to it. This should be at least 32A, think all modern installs have a 45A breaker for the oven. Might be worth getting someone in to see what's going on, just for peace of mind if nothing else.

[Strokes]

38 minutes ago, davieG said:

You may be correct.

 

So far I've managed to work out that if I switch off the 32amp (with the 2 wires) with the 5th 16a (the extreme right one) then it disconnects my oven, lounge sockets, not checked them all, 2 bedrooms sockets (2 bed bungalow) and the ceiling fan/light in the conservatory. Will probably need to check all the sockets and try to find out what the other 3 16amp ones are for. 

 

Is this an acceptable set up?

It doesn’t sound right if I’m understanding your description right. Do you have to turn 2 breakers off to isolate a circuit?

[The Syrup]

Definitely a bit dodgy if you have to switch off 2 breakers to isolate a socket. Each circuit should have 1 breaker, with a ring circuit both ends of the ring go into the same breaker, hence 2 wires into 1 32A mcb in the photo above. If each end of the ring was connected into a separate mcb (one end into 32A mcb, other end into 16A mcb) that might explain the problem. Not very safe if that's what's happening.

Edited 25 September 2021 by The Syrup

[Strokes]

32 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

Definitely a bit dodgy if you have to switch off 2 breakers to isolate a socket. Each circuit should have 1 breaker, with a ring circuit both ends of the ring go into the same breaker, hence 2 wires into 1 32A mcb in the photo above. If each end of the ring was connected into a separate mcb (one end into 32A mcb, other end into 16A mcb) that might explain the problem. Not very safe if that's what's happening.

It’s no longer rated for the circuit correctly either and could easily cause a fire.

Definitely get it tested and certified ASAP.

[davieG]

49 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It doesn’t sound right if I’m understanding your description right. Do you have to turn 2 breakers off to isolate a circuit?

Looks that way that's why i started this thread because none of the individual breakers were disconnecting the socket I was attempting to change

[davieG]

@The Syrup and @Strokes

 

Thanks for your help now need to find an electrician.

 

Could certainly do without this extra problem.

[The Syrup]

From that photo the cable going into the left hand 16A breaker is much thicker, maybe 6mm2 twin and earth thats used for ovens. Sockets on rings or radial circuits are 2.5mm2 and lighting is 1mm2 t+e for standard domestic installs as I recall.

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, The Syrup said:

From that photo the cable going into the left hand 16A breaker is much thicker, maybe 6mm2 twin and earth thats used for ovens. Sockets on rings or radial circuits are 2.5mm2 and lighting is 1mm2 t+e for standard domestic installs as I recall.

I've had a single oven like this before that came with a 3 pin plug which needed to be plugging into a socket via a fused spur outllet so less concerned about that but will try to find the manual.

[The Syrup]

Just now, davieG said:

I've had a single oven like this before that came with a 3 pin plug so less concerned about that but will try to find the manual.

That would make sense. Im thinking of a cooker (oven & hob) which requires the dedicated circuit. Fitted one at my mums house recently and its hard wired into a box on the wall

[Buzzell]

I’m an electrician, the cooker has to be on its own designated circuit, rated at 32A. As for socket circuits they are either radials or ring mains. Radials being rated at 16A/20A which basically means one cable going from the Consumer Unit to the sockets but not a return back and Rings at 32A which is basically a ring, cable at each socket and a return back to the Consumer Unit.

 

You should never have to isolate two circuits to kill a single circuit.

 

Hope this helps.

[Buzzell]

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Edited 25 September 2021 by buzzer_b

[davieG]

Potentially a stupid question but can I take that single radial wire, assuming it's only one socket and put it straight into the ring at the Consumer unit as if it was a spur?

[Tommy G]

I wouldn't touch electrics, just get a professional in. Been electricuted myself, not nice.