Third year research project questions

[Euan]

Football Research Project
I am involved in a Research Project in the Sociology Department at the University of Leicester. John Williams is my supervisor. I am trying to get responses from football supporters on three key questions. Please could you provide brief explanation behind your reasoning and explanation your answers as this would be much appreciated

1.      Have you noticed a decline in overt racism at football grounds, perhaps due to factors like better policing and stewarding and the rise of social media where racism is more anonymous? 

2.      Do you think the anonymity offered on social media is contributing to spreading abuse?  Do you have examples you can point to?
. 
3.      Do you believe social media companies do enough to combat racism connected to football online?  Is the lack of regulation and policing in these new spheres part of the problem? 

Thanks for your response.  Your answers will be used anonymously to illustrate our study.  Your reply will be taken to provide consent.
 

[fox_up_north]

Your first question - what time period are you covering? Some of us weren't around during the 70s!

[Euan]

2 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Your first question - what time period are you covering? Some of us weren't around during the 70s!

To be honest it can be over any time period. So in your time being a football fan have you noticed any changes in levels of racism around grounds and the reasons for why this may be. 

[Matt_Lcfc]

Too young to provide any worthy answer for your first question. However, it’s a resounding yes for both two and three.

 

Only a small time on platforms like Twitter will show you this. Not saying all are like this but these ‘Football Twitter’ accounts who hide behind players have to take some blame. The fact that people who do not use their real identities often leads to users think that they won’t be held accountable for what they say / how they behave on social media. It’s shocking really. 
 

It’s not even completely FT accounts either. There are plenty of examples for people who have racially abusing players who use their real identity. Look at Karius after the Champions League final or Saka and Rashford after the European Championship.
 

To be honest, anonymity will play a part but maybe it isn’t as simple as that. I honestly think for some strange reason people believe that posting on social media won’t land them in the same trouble. However, a few searches on google will suggest otherwise - these people are often exposed.

 

Regarding your last question, social media platforms ultimately have to do more. How they do this is very complex though. One way is imposing a greater check and balance for people signing up though. A similar strategy that betting apps use could be effective: get people to sign up under their actual name and see evidence of official identification because you’ll subsequently know who these people are / where they live etc.

 

The only issue is a potential infringement of rights. Where do you draw the line? It’s so hard to police it, how do you class racism anyway? Some comments are simply examples of hate crime, however, others could be viewed as mere opinions (despite being incredibly borderline).

 

It is a very tough conundrum and I sway towards the view that you cannot police every single tweet / share on social media. But, what social media platforms can do is impose tougher rules and gather greater knowledge about the people who are signing up.

Edited 3 May 2022 by Matt_Lcfc

[Euan]

12 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Too young to provide any worthy answer for your first question. However, it’s a resounding yes for both two and three.

 

Only a small time on platforms like Twitter will show you this. Not saying all are like this but these ‘Football Twitter’ accounts who hide behind players have to take some blame. The fact that people who do not use their real identities often leads to users think that they won’t be held accountable for what they say / how they behave on social media. It’s shocking really. 
 

It’s not even completely FT accounts either. There are plenty of examples for people who have racially abusing players who use their real identity. Look at Karius after the Champions League final or Saka and Rashford after the Euros. 
 

To be honest, anonymity will play a part but maybe it isn’t as simple as that. I honestly think for some strange reason that people believe posting on social media won’t land them in the same trouble. However, a few searches on google will suggest otherwise - these people are often exposed.

 

Regarding your last question, social media platforms ultimately have to do more. How they do this is very complex though. One way is imposing a greater check and balance for people signing up though. A similar strategy that betting apps use could be effective: get people to sign up under their actual name and see evidence of official identification because you’ll subsequently know who these people are / where they live etc.

 

The only issue is a potential infringement of rights. Where do you draw the line? It’s so hard to police it, how do you class racism anyway? Some comments are simply examples of hate crime, however, others could be viewed as mere opinions (despite being incredibly borderline).

 

It is a very tough conundrum and I sway towards the view that you cannot police every single tweet / share on social media. But, what social media platforms can do is impose tougher rules and gather greater knowledge about the people who are signing up.

Thanks mate, much appreciated

[Matt_Lcfc]

9 minutes ago, Euan said:

Thanks mate, much appreciated

No worries mate, good luck with the research.

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, Euan said:

Football Research Project
I am involved in a Research Project in the Sociology Department at the University of Leicester. John Williams is my supervisor. I am trying to get responses from football supporters on three key questions. Please could you provide brief explanation behind your reasoning and explanation your answers as this would be much appreciated

1.      Have you noticed a decline in overt racism at football grounds, perhaps due to factors like better policing and stewarding and the rise of social media where racism is more anonymous? 

2.      Do you think the anonymity offered on social media is contributing to spreading abuse?  Do you have examples you can point to?
. 
3.      Do you believe social media companies do enough to combat racism connected to football online?  Is the lack of regulation and policing in these new spheres part of the problem? 

Thanks for your response.  Your answers will be used anonymously to illustrate our study.  Your reply will be taken to provide consent.
 

Decent having John Williams as your supervisor on this topic, I studied Sociology and did my dissertation on football hooliganism so read a bit of his work.

[OntarioFox]

1.      Have you noticed a decline in overt racism at football grounds, perhaps due to factors like better policing and stewarding and the rise of social media where racism is more anonymous? 

 

Speaking purely from the perspective of football in England - yes. It wasn't that long ago that I specifically remember Forest fans calling us a 'town full of P*k*s' and that 'we used to be English, we're not anymore' on account of our large South Asian population. That wasn't even ancient history either - it was happening right up until we got promoted. I even remember them racially abusing Lloyd Dyer after Knockeart's winner at their place in 2013. Maybe I just see less of it nowadays because we don't play them much anymore. Come on Bournemouth. 

 

Seriously speaking though, I really do see less of it from our own fans nowadays. The last time I can actually remember a genuinely racist interaction from our own fans, bafflingly, was singing songs about eating dogs in support (?!?) of Shinji Okazaki, and even then it was a small handful doing it and rightfully called out for the ignorant rubbish it was. I can remember whole groups singing the same about Yuki Abe on away days a few years prior.

 

Attitudes have definitely changed even in the 15 years I've been watching, and I think more than anything it's down to societal changes - particularly that BME players and managers are way more vocal about experiences of racism these days. Stewarding hasn't done anything to either prevent or encourage it - they're more bothered about bullying people for standing up than actually dealing with racists in the stands. But the attitude of the 'neutral' fan in the stands has seemingly changed from a laissez-faire shrug of the shoulders to more vocal condemnation these days, even if I'm not sure most would go as far as to call the 'grass lines' the FA and clubs have set up.

 

2.      Do you think the anonymity offered on social media is contributing to spreading abuse?  Do you have examples you can point to?

 

Yes. I don't even think it's necessary to highlight the obvious examples, but I feel the globalised nature of the sport, in tandem with the global nature of social media itself, lends itself to encourage the worst in people, and also to allow views from cultures less tolerant than our own to bleed into the conversation. It's never been easier to surround yourself with people to feed your confirmation bias, and likewise to compete to be the most offensive or controversial. It's not unique to football as far as the dark side of the internet is concerned, but it's certainly been a convenient conduit for the (in my eyes dwindling) circle of knuckle-draggers who still think that way to carry on away from the increasing hostility they face in real life.

3.      Do you believe social media companies do enough to combat racism connected to football online?  Is the lack of regulation and policing in these new spheres part of the problem? 

 

I do think there's been a genuine effort to combat it within the confines of the existing structure of social media. It's a double-edged sword though. I am a huge believer in the concept of a neutral internet where people can post anonymously if they so please. It doesn't mean that companies and platforms shouldn't continue to do work, or strive to do more, to make those voices marginalised and shunned online. The problem with social media and the way it encourages like-minded people to find circles is that it means the more extreme opinions are the ones that end up getting the most oxygen. It draws other susceptible minds in, and causes conflict with those with the more extreme opposing view, while the more moderate people - those folks in the terraces who would tell a mate to rein it in if he says something offensive - maybe don't even see the post at all until it's reported on in the mainstream media, because of the way social media algorithms and 

 

It's complex. There's no easy answer that doesn't involve a heavy-handed approach that changes online freedom as we know it, and the subsequent inevitable resentment it would cause. But to wrap back around to the first point - I'm hopeful that in 'real life' things are getting better year by year. Just don't let Forest get promoted for Christ's sake. 

Edited 3 May 2022 by OntarioFox

[Euan]

21 hours ago, OntarioFox said:

1.      Have you noticed a decline in overt racism at football grounds, perhaps due to factors like better policing and stewarding and the rise of social media where racism is more anonymous? 

 

Speaking purely from the perspective of football in England - yes. It wasn't that long ago that I specifically remember Forest fans calling us a 'town full of P*k*s' and that 'we used to be English, we're not anymore' on account of our large South Asian population. That wasn't even ancient history either - it was happening right up until we got promoted. I even remember them racially abusing Lloyd Dyer after Knockeart's winner at their place in 2013. Maybe I just see less of it nowadays because we don't play them much anymore. Come on Bournemouth. 

 

Seriously speaking though, I really do see less of it from our own fans nowadays. The last time I can actually remember a genuinely racist interaction from our own fans, bafflingly, was singing songs about eating dogs in support (?!?) of Shinji Okazaki, and even then it was a small handful doing it and rightfully called out for the ignorant rubbish it was. I can remember whole groups singing the same about Yuki Abe on away days a few years prior.

 

Attitudes have definitely changed even in the 15 years I've been watching, and I think more than anything it's down to societal changes - particularly that BME players and managers are way more vocal about experiences of racism these days. Stewarding hasn't done anything to either prevent or encourage it - they're more bothered about bullying people for standing up than actually dealing with racists in the stands. But the attitude of the 'neutral' fan in the stands has seemingly changed from a laissez-faire shrug of the shoulders to more vocal condemnation these days, even if I'm not sure most would go as far as to call the 'grass lines' the FA and clubs have set up.

 

2.      Do you think the anonymity offered on social media is contributing to spreading abuse?  Do you have examples you can point to?

 

Yes. I don't even think it's necessary to highlight the obvious examples, but I feel the globalised nature of the sport, in tandem with the global nature of social media itself, lends itself to encourage the worst in people, and also to allow views from cultures less tolerant than our own to bleed into the conversation. It's never been easier to surround yourself with people to feed your confirmation bias, and likewise to compete to be the most offensive or controversial. It's not unique to football as far as the dark side of the internet is concerned, but it's certainly been a convenient conduit for the (in my eyes dwindling) circle of knuckle-draggers who still think that way to carry on away from the increasing hostility they face in real life.

3.      Do you believe social media companies do enough to combat racism connected to football online?  Is the lack of regulation and policing in these new spheres part of the problem? 

 

I do think there's been a genuine effort to combat it within the confines of the existing structure of social media. It's a double-edged sword though. I am a huge believer in the concept of a neutral internet where people can post anonymously if they so please. It doesn't mean that companies and platforms shouldn't continue to do work, or strive to do more, to make those voices marginalised and shunned online. The problem with social media and the way it encourages like-minded people to find circles is that it means the more extreme opinions are the ones that end up getting the most oxygen. It draws other susceptible minds in, and causes conflict with those with the more extreme opposing view, while the more moderate people - those folks in the terraces who would tell a mate to rein it in if he says something offensive - maybe don't even see the post at all until it's reported on in the mainstream media, because of the way social media algorithms and 

 

It's complex. There's no easy answer that doesn't involve a heavy-handed approach that changes online freedom as we know it, and the subsequent inevitable resentment it would cause. But to wrap back around to the first point - I'm hopeful that in 'real life' things are getting better year by year. Just don't let Forest get promoted for Christ's sake. 

That's great thanks mate

[Big Dave]

On 03/05/2022 at 16:19, Euan said:

Football Research Project
I am involved in a Research Project in the Sociology Department at the University of Leicester. John Williams is my supervisor. I am trying to get responses from football supporters on three key questions. Please could you provide brief explanation behind your reasoning and explanation your answers as this would be much appreciated

1.      Have you noticed a decline in overt racism at football grounds, perhaps due to factors like better policing and stewarding and the rise of social media where racism is more anonymous? 

2.      Do you think the anonymity offered on social media is contributing to spreading abuse?  Do you have examples you can point to?
. 
3.      Do you believe social media companies do enough to combat racism connected to football online?  Is the lack of regulation and policing in these new spheres part of the problem? 

Thanks for your response.  Your answers will be used anonymously to illustrate our study.  Your reply will be taken to provide consent.
 

I have been a ST holder for about 8/9 years, and wet to ad-hoc matches before that.

 

1 - I have never experienced any racism within the home ground, or to any of the (minimal) away games I have been too.  I have experienced homophobia on 2 occasions at the KP, and once at Twikenham for an England Rugby game.  Probably important to note that I am a white male (for context).  For the first 5/6 years, I was in the Family Stand, and now in C1.  Stewarding does not really seem to have changed since I have been attending matches.

2 - I think social media is a real issue with regards to abuse - not just racial, but gender, sexual orientation, etc.  I have no direct examples, but we are all aware of the abuse that many footballers have received online.  Anonymity is an issue, and I think social media accounts could (and should) be better regulated, and would support having to go through some extra checks before creating new social media accounts.  After all, I would expect to keep a social media account for many years, and not just a few messages!!

3 - I do not think that social media companies do enough to combat racism, amongst many other things.   I have reported some offensive 'jokes' on-line before.  Sometimes I do not get any response.  In other cases, I received a response saying that the post has been reviewed, but they are not going to do anything about it, and that I may be disappointed.  I believe that social media companies need to be held to be more accountable for the content that they host on their platforms, and believe they could do more to automatically detect and either flag or delete inappropriate posts - they just dont seem to want to.

 

[foxinsocks]

1. Yes.... but I think it is not down policing... it is down to peer pressure from other supporters. Racist jokes and abuse are now frowned much more... and other fans will remonstrate.

2. Social media enables the development of extreme views in 2 ways: I. The content algorithms feed incrementally extreme content to keep you on the platform  (you start of looking for fun runs and endnup with ultra marathons); II you can always find your tribe...ie. if you are a bit racist you can find others who oppose immigration or support repatriation... and the things they say normslises these views to you.

3. Social media companies dont do enought to exclude illegal hate content of any type... racist,   homophobic,  islamophobic, antisemitic etc.  Yet they cancel other stuff that while it may be devicise is not illegal.

Edited 4 May 2022 by foxinsocks

[Euan]

9 hours ago, Big Dave said:

I have been a ST holder for about 8/9 years, and wet to ad-hoc matches before that.

 

1 - I have never experienced any racism within the home ground, or to any of the (minimal) away games I have been too.  I have experienced homophobia on 2 occasions at the KP, and once at Twikenham for an England Rugby game.  Probably important to note that I am a white male (for context).  For the first 5/6 years, I was in the Family Stand, and now in C1.  Stewarding does not really seem to have changed since I have been attending matches.

2 - I think social media is a real issue with regards to abuse - not just racial, but gender, sexual orientation, etc.  I have no direct examples, but we are all aware of the abuse that many footballers have received online.  Anonymity is an issue, and I think social media accounts could (and should) be better regulated, and would support having to go through some extra checks before creating new social media accounts.  After all, I would expect to keep a social media account for many years, and not just a few messages!!

3 - I do not think that social media companies do enough to combat racism, amongst many other things.   I have reported some offensive 'jokes' on-line before.  Sometimes I do not get any response.  In other cases, I received a response saying that the post has been reviewed, but they are not going to do anything about it, and that I may be disappointed.  I believe that social media companies need to be held to be more accountable for the content that they host on their platforms, and believe they could do more to automatically detect and either flag or delete inappropriate posts - they just dont seem to want to.

 

Thank you much appreciated 

[Euan]

8 hours ago, foxinsocks said:

1. Yes.... but I think it is not down policing... it is down to peer pressure from other supporters. Racist jokes and abuse are now frowned much more... and other fans will remonstrate.

2. Social media enables the development of extreme views in 2 ways: I. The content algorithms feed incrementally extreme content to keep you on the platform  (you start of looking for fun runs and endnup with ultra marathons); II you can always find your tribe...ie. if you are a bit racist you can find others who oppose immigration or support repatriation... and the things they say normslises these views to you.

3. Social media companies dont do enought to exclude illegal hate content of any type... racist,   homophobic,  islamophobic, antisemitic etc.  Yet they cancel other stuff that while it may be devicise is not illegal.

Thanks appreciate the response

[Euan]

On 03/05/2022 at 18:03, Tommy Fresh said:

Decent having John Williams as your supervisor on this topic, I studied Sociology and did my dissertation on football hooliganism so read a bit of his work.

Yes it is has helped me a lot!

Would it be possible to also get your opinions to the questions too, would be massively appreciated.