Gypsies

[TrickyTrev]

I really have no sympathy for them.

They are complaining today that they are the most targetted group of people in Britain and have to put up with the most rascist abuse.

If they lived in there camps and kept them tidy, if they drove around in taxed and insured vehicles and if they paid tax on there earnings I am sure society would embrace them a lot more.

But quite frankly they do nothing to help themselves.

81355[/snapback]

i agree with you to a certain degree, but the true gypsies with the round topped caravans and brown and whites horses are fine, they live off the land and once they've moved on you'd not even know they'd been and the travellers who ARE in proper sites do start to pay taxes etc the ones who are annoying are the ones who flout planning laws, ignore taxes, park up wherever the hell they like and leave a whole load of shit behind, claiming the bin men won't take it, of course there are council tips they could take it to if they wanted.

just my opinion of course, i'm prepared to be shot down in flames.

81388[/snapback]

Well done for speaking out, its a hard issue to talk about as their is SOOO much prejudice around.

I do think you need to take into consideration that there is not always enough land space provided for by travellers. Under the last goverment the responsibility to provide land for travelelrs was tranferred to the local councils, since then there has been a dramtic increase in the sale of common land for developments and we are now ina situation where there is less legal space available than that demanded by the number of nomads we have in this country.

[TrickyTrev]

I have sympathy, it is impossible to live an alternatie lifestyle in this country and anybody that attempts to do so is always attacked by society.

I know there are merit goods that everyone feels the befifits of (defence, street lights, policing) but the vast majority of goods paid for by the goverment are possibly to avoid, so there is a part of me that feels if somebody wishes to live in isolation from a taxed society and genuinely not recieve the benefits from them then they should be allowed to do so.

There are certainly more people evading taxes in one hand and taking the benefits in the other that there are gypsies! I mean I don't know if you smoke but if you do have you never accepted a cheap packet cash in hand, because in doing so you are not paying excise duty that funds your habit.

81391[/snapback]

That's fine if they don't want to follow society - but they want the best of both worlds.

They have all the mod con's that alot of people can't afford, they drive bigs trucks that cost alot. It's a life that we would all love to lead, but sadly it's only these travellers that get away with it.

What about the poor farmer whose field they invade?

81397[/snapback]

My view is an idealistic one and I understand it may be a difficult one to function in reality.

I have little or no sympathy for those who do not follow true traveller traditions, but I do understand there is a shortage of legal land available to them sometimes forcing htem to park illegally.

Material goods are paid for by money earnt cash in hand, tax evasion is a crime that some may associate with nomads but in reality there are other demographics where it is much more of a problem.

[emmalcfc]

There's a gypsy camp, just up on this aerodrone bit from me. I have no sympathy for them one's because me and my mate have been threatened by them. What makes them worse though, is the police are afraid of them, and they actually let them get away with it.

Thankfully they are out the way a bit from most of us, but there's a farm nearby, and the owner has practically been stopped from doing what he wanted to do. All because of the gypsies.

[Guest]

There is a site near to my old primary school, where the fairground travellers 'live' during the winter months. The kids were supposed to come to my school from November until March, as part of their agreement with Social Services over their education, and the fact that for the rest of the year they would be travelling and not learning.

The kids would turn up for a week, steal anything that wasn't nailed down, wreck anything that was, and we wouldn't see them again for a year afterwards.

I was 8 when I was first asked to help out with literacy skills for some of these kids. The more advanced kids would be partnered with a traveller, and we would help them to learn the basics, as none of them could read, and there weren't enough teachers and assistants to cope. I was paired with an 11 year old boy, who was twice my size, and threatened, verbally abused, and eventually physically attacked (albeit with a 'Billy Blue Hat book!).

So excuse me if some people's idealistic views on travellers make me a tad angry.

[TrickyTrev]

There is a site near to my old primary school, where the fairground travellers 'live' during the winter months.  The kids were supposed to come to my school from November until March, as part of their agreement with Social Services over their education, and the fact that for the rest of the year they would be travelling and not learning.

The kids would turn up for a week, steal anything that wasn't nailed down, wreck anything that was, and we wouldn't see them again for a year afterwards.

I was 8 when I was first asked to help out with literacy skills for some of these kids.  The more advanced kids would be partnered with a traveller, and we would help them to learn the basics, as none of them could read, and there weren't enough teachers and assistants to cope.  I was paired with an 11 year old boy, who was twice my size, and threatened, verbally abused, and eventually physically attacked (albeit with a 'Billy Blue Hat book!).

So excuse me if some people's idealistic views on travellers make me a tad angry.

81419[/snapback]

Its all anecdotal evidence though! Just because you, and others, have had bad experiences with some travellers does not mean they all deserve to be tarred with the same brush.

I come from the worst town in the country and have been beaten up/threatened by all manor of peoples, if I held grudges against them all I don't think i would like anybody!

I went to school with travellers and did not have the same negative experiences as you, although there was plenty of talk about theft. Not many of them enjoyed school or bothered turning up, but I am not suprised considering the level of prejudice they faced from teachers, parents and pupils. I think it is pretty sad myself.

[Guest]

There is a site near to my old primary school, where the fairground travellers 'live' during the winter months.  The kids were supposed to come to my school from November until March, as part of their agreement with Social Services over their education, and the fact that for the rest of the year they would be travelling and not learning.

The kids would turn up for a week, steal anything that wasn't nailed down, wreck anything that was, and we wouldn't see them again for a year afterwards.

I was 8 when I was first asked to help out with literacy skills for some of these kids.  The more advanced kids would be partnered with a traveller, and we would help them to learn the basics, as none of them could read, and there weren't enough teachers and assistants to cope.  I was paired with an 11 year old boy, who was twice my size, and threatened, verbally abused, and eventually physically attacked (albeit with a 'Billy Blue Hat book!).

So excuse me if some people's idealistic views on travellers make me a tad angry.

81419[/snapback]

Its all anecdotal evidence though! Just because you, and others, have had bad experiences with some travellers does not mean they all deserve to be tarred with the same brush.

I come from the worst town in the country and have been beaten up/threatened by all manor of peoples, if I held grudges against them all I don't think i would like anybody!

I went to school with travellers and did not have the same negative experiences as you, although there was plenty of talk about theft. Not many of them enjoyed school or bothered turning up, but I am not suprised considering the level of prejudice they faced from teachers, parents and pupils. I think it is pretty sad myself.

81485[/snapback]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

As horrible as it sounds, stereotypes come about for a reason.

For the record, I do know an ex-traveller who did try to pay taxes, who did clean up when moving on, and who had to get out of that scene as soon as possible because she didn't like the attitude of those who have given travellers a bad name.

[TrickyTrev]

There is a site near to my old primary school, where the fairground travellers 'live' during the winter months.  The kids were supposed to come to my school from November until March, as part of their agreement with Social Services over their education, and the fact that for the rest of the year they would be travelling and not learning.

The kids would turn up for a week, steal anything that wasn't nailed down, wreck anything that was, and we wouldn't see them again for a year afterwards.

I was 8 when I was first asked to help out with literacy skills for some of these kids.  The more advanced kids would be partnered with a traveller, and we would help them to learn the basics, as none of them could read, and there weren't enough teachers and assistants to cope.  I was paired with an 11 year old boy, who was twice my size, and threatened, verbally abused, and eventually physically attacked (albeit with a 'Billy Blue Hat book!).

So excuse me if some people's idealistic views on travellers make me a tad angry.

81419[/snapback]

Its all anecdotal evidence though! Just because you, and others, have had bad experiences with some travellers does not mean they all deserve to be tarred with the same brush.

I come from the worst town in the country and have been beaten up/threatened by all manor of peoples, if I held grudges against them all I don't think i would like anybody!

I went to school with travellers and did not have the same negative experiences as you, although there was plenty of talk about theft. Not many of them enjoyed school or bothered turning up, but I am not suprised considering the level of prejudice they faced from teachers, parents and pupils. I think it is pretty sad myself.

81485[/snapback]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

As horrible as it sounds, stereotypes come about for a reason.

For the record, I do know an ex-traveller who did try to pay taxes, who did clean up when moving on, and who had to get out of that scene as soon as possible because she didn't like the attitude of those who have given travellers a bad name.

81489[/snapback]

I don't want an arguement here, I am just saying what i think is right.

I agree it is a philosophical question, I happen to think it is a mixture of both. Bad behaviour from minorities leads to mass labelling from the media and wider society. A stigmatism builds up over time e.t.c

At the end of the day where the label comes from is irrelevent. I just don't think it is particuarly productive to keep reiterating those sterotypes and am of the firm belief that sterotypes can nver be rue for a whole group of people. I'm dismayed that a mainstream political party choses to tap into such issues at election time, they are delicate and sensitive problems that don't need to be dealt with in an appropiate way. Not a slanging match, as we can see it creates divisions and is not particuarly productive.

[Guest]

There is a site near to my old primary school, where the fairground travellers 'live' during the winter months.  The kids were supposed to come to my school from November until March, as part of their agreement with Social Services over their education, and the fact that for the rest of the year they would be travelling and not learning.

The kids would turn up for a week, steal anything that wasn't nailed down, wreck anything that was, and we wouldn't see them again for a year afterwards.

I was 8 when I was first asked to help out with literacy skills for some of these kids.  The more advanced kids would be partnered with a traveller, and we would help them to learn the basics, as none of them could read, and there weren't enough teachers and assistants to cope.  I was paired with an 11 year old boy, who was twice my size, and threatened, verbally abused, and eventually physically attacked (albeit with a 'Billy Blue Hat book!).

So excuse me if some people's idealistic views on travellers make me a tad angry.

81419[/snapback]

Its all anecdotal evidence though! Just because you, and others, have had bad experiences with some travellers does not mean they all deserve to be tarred with the same brush.

I come from the worst town in the country and have been beaten up/threatened by all manor of peoples, if I held grudges against them all I don't think i would like anybody!

I went to school with travellers and did not have the same negative experiences as you, although there was plenty of talk about theft. Not many of them enjoyed school or bothered turning up, but I am not suprised considering the level of prejudice they faced from teachers, parents and pupils. I think it is pretty sad myself.

81485[/snapback]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

As horrible as it sounds, stereotypes come about for a reason.

For the record, I do know an ex-traveller who did try to pay taxes, who did clean up when moving on, and who had to get out of that scene as soon as possible because she didn't like the attitude of those who have given travellers a bad name.

81489[/snapback]

I don't want an arguement here, I am just saying what i think is right.

I agree it is a philosophical question, I happen to think it is a mixture of both. Bad behaviour from minorities leads to mass labelling from the media and wider society. A stigmatism builds up over time e.t.c

At the end of the day where the label comes from is irrelevent. I just don't think it is particuarly productive to keep reiterating those sterotypes and am of the firm belief that sterotypes can nver be rue for a whole group of people. I'm dismayed that a mainstream political party choses to tap into such issues at election time, they are delicate and sensitive problems that don't need to be dealt with in an appropiate way. Not a slanging match, as we can see it creates divisions and is not particuarly productive.

81498[/snapback]

Come on, you should know by now, I love a 'healthy' debate!

I do agree to some extent, but I'm afraid personal experience can cloud the judgement somewhat!

However, I definitely think that the Tories could be concentrating on more important issues with an election coming up. Unfortunately they're tapping into the hysterical ignorance of the pseudo-middle classes.

[City Fan]

I know there are merit goods that everyone feels the befifits of (defence, street lights, policing) but the vast majority of goods paid for by the goverment are possibly to avoid, so there is a part of me that feels if somebody wishes to live in isolation from a taxed society and genuinely not recieve the benefits from them then they should be allowed to do so.

81391[/snapback]

Ooh looks like someone has done/is doing, Economics at A-Level!

[Muz]

Reconsidering Future says:

i'd have to find which caravan u live in and set it alight

Again Tom is using threatning behaviour towards me. Know body believe what he says , he lies and bullies people

[Nationwider]

and Ian Marshall!

81365[/snapback]

Ian Marshall was a tramp, not a gypsy. They smell quite different. Tramps of meths, gypsies of their cousins.

[Scow]

and Ian Marshall!

81365[/snapback]

Ian Marshall was a tramp, not a gypsy. They smell quite different. Tramps of meths, gypsies of their cousins.

81581[/snapback]

Nice one.

[Benji]

such a topic is very hard

mainly because peoples arguments are very subjective and consist of personal experiences and discriminations

it is a bit like immigrants, everyone has a view on it, some more justifiable than others, but when they come up its almost impossible to reach a mutual agreement

personally from what have been around ours they have been volatile, aggressive and even injured someone at our school. Although as tricky says this cannot be convicted towards everyone as there are undoubtedly some that live just as legit as the average man but feel the pleasure and benefit of living in such a tradition.

But a totally subjective comment is unfair as it would be like taking the racism events in spain and then saying all spanish people are racist, when infact looking at ourselves we've not totally got rid of it have we but prejudice for whatever reason will always exist so long as people have the freedom of thought