Kisnorbo overrated ?

[poynton blue]

Hey cheers

you sound like a football genius to me

[Rich Fox]

Kisnorbo is a crap passer of the ball and will drag us down to his level he should keep away. Australians should not be allowed to play football the same applies to the french playing cricket or the yanks playing our soccer should never be allowed.

[JoeyB]

Kisnorbo is a crap passer of the ball and will drag us down to his level he should keep away. Australians should not be allowed to play football the same applies to the french playing cricket or the yanks playing our soccer should never be allowed.

London Donovan

Brad Fridel

Kasey Keller

They can play footie

[Guest ttfn]

I'm not going to say that all of what has been written is rubbish, but much of it is.

I cannot emphasise enough that Kisnorbo was voted on this forum as one of our (if not the) player(s) of the season last year. The guy is coming back from 6 months out and has had no pre-season. Cut him some slack. Having a player of proven Championship quality in the side is only going to benefit us in the long run, even if it takes a few games for him to get back to normal. What we need to get out of this division are 'bruisers', not fancy dans. Kisnorbo is exactly that (a bruiser). I am yet to see a better header of a football outside of the Premier League and what a valuable commodity that is in a division where much of the time the ball is in the air (admittedly often thanks to Kisnorbo).

People are saying get off Howard's back because he's never going to sprint past a defender. But these are the same people having a go at Kisnorbo for not keeping the ball on the deck. That is not his strength. And to accommodate him we're going to have to change style slightly. But we need players of his quality in the side if we're going to mount a sustained stint at promotion. Any side in the Championship would want him in their team and we moan about him!

He is the best defender we've had at this club since Elliott. He may not be able to pass a ball but he's a bloody good centre back.

[Rich_Sheffield]

Bring back the morrison/tunchev/hobbs partnerships, with tunchev the backbone. Either of the other on the bench.

Kisnorbos return has only seemed to unsettle a side that looked pretty solid.

Dont get me wrong a defence cant wholly be blamed for letting goals in. But they go a long way towards it.

Our worry is now that we are shipping goals and that confidence in front of goal has slightly eluded us of recent weeks.

Especially at home, that crisp bowl has a lot to answer for. I fear for our home record this season as we do (except the paint pot cup last night) play as a different side away from home. I dont know if its the expectancy of the crowd that transfers to the players giving them the fear of failure but i do hope that come May we're out of this poxy division and able to consolidate back into the Championship once again. As everybody does!!!!!

Come on you Foxes, get your claws in!!!!

Up the City!!!

I was a big kisnorbo fan last year, but it pains me to say it but kisnorbo hasn't got a place in this team at the moment. As you say the team looked solid prior to his comeback.

[Rich_Sheffield]

I'm not going to say that all of what has been written is rubbish, but much of it is.

I cannot emphasise enough that Kisnorbo was voted on this forum as one of our (if not the) player(s) of the season last year. The guy is coming back from 6 months out and has had no pre-season. Cut him some slack. Having a player of proven Championship quality in the side is only going to benefit us in the long run, even if it takes a few games for him to get back to normal. What we need to get out of this division are 'bruisers', not fancy dans. Kisnorbo is exactly that (a bruiser). I am yet to see a better header of a football outside of the Premier League and what a valuable commodity that is in a division where much of the time the ball is in the air (admittedly often thanks to Kisnorbo).

People are saying get off Howard's back because he's never going to sprint past a defender. But these are the same people having a go at Kisnorbo for not keeping the ball on the deck. That is not his strength. And to accommodate him we're going to have to change style slightly. But we need players of his quality in the side if we're going to mount a sustained stint at promotion. Any side in the Championship would want him in their team and we moan about him!

He is the best defender we've had at this club since Elliott. He may not be able to pass a ball but he's a bloody good centre back.

and one of the best arieal ball winners around but....... we were solid prior to his comeback

[Thracian]

I'm not going to say that all of what has been written is rubbish, but much of it is.

I cannot emphasise enough that Kisnorbo was voted on this forum as one of our (if not the) player(s) of the season last year. The guy is coming back from 6 months out and has had no pre-season. Cut him some slack. Having a player of proven Championship quality in the side is only going to benefit us in the long run, even if it takes a few games for him to get back to normal. What we need to get out of this division are 'bruisers', not fancy dans. Kisnorbo is exactly that (a bruiser). I am yet to see a better header of a football outside of the Premier League and what a valuable commodity that is in a division where much of the time the ball is in the air (admittedly often thanks to Kisnorbo).

People are saying get off Howard's back because he's never going to sprint past a defender. But these are the same people having a go at Kisnorbo for not keeping the ball on the deck. That is not his strength. And to accommodate him we're going to have to change style slightly. But we need players of his quality in the side if we're going to mount a sustained stint at promotion. Any side in the Championship would want him in their team and we moan about him!

He is the best defender we've had at this club since Elliott. He may not be able to pass a ball but he's a bloody good centre back.

We've had the Kisnorbo style for three seasons. It's been awful to watch and, after two seasons struggling we were eventually relegated.

Kisnorbo was one of our best players because he defended resolutely with spirit and consistency in a piss poor side who were so bad that they actually surprised their own fans if they scored at all.

In times past he'd never have got in the team at all. The guy deserves credit for his unquestioned effort but it's a myth that, in the modern game, you'll muscle your way to promotion. Reading were competitive, no question, but they scored over 90 goals and you don't do that via route one and certainly not with our personnel.

[Anish]

Kisnorbo, Oakley and Howard cannot all be in the same team on that form IMO.

Last night, Kisnorbo was like a cruise missile launcher on auto-fire whenever he looked up and spotted Howard 50 yards away. It does not work.

When the game is going against us, we need someone in central midfield who is in their faces. Oakley's not interested if he hasn't got space to trot around like a show-pony.

We're in danger of heading back to the same problems of the last few years, with untouchable experienced players who aren't offering us enough. Howard is good in the air and poses a physical threat and all that, I understand people like him, but we just don't seem to play well as a team when he is there and I don't think his qualities are particularly effective.

So far this season, Tunchev has made Kisnorbo look like an average lower-league player, King has outperformed Oakley and Fryatt looks far more of a goalscoring threat than Howard.

Time for these three to prove themselves all over again.

Completely agree. The spine of the team is considerably weakened when all three of those players are involved. Kisnorbo hits it long and (a) it goes nowhere near Howard/the target player; (b) Howard flicks it on to nobody as Fryatt doesn't read the header; or © Howard loses the header and Oakley is nowhere near the 2nd ball.

[Bazaldo]

Completely agree. The spine of the team is considerably weakened when all three of those players are involved. Kisnorbo hits it long and (a) it goes nowhere near Howard/the target player; (b) Howard flicks it on to nobody as Fryatt doesn't read the header; or © Howard loses the header and Oakley is nowhere near the 2nd ball.

Spot on, so which of them gets dropped?

[Hackneyisblue]

Spot on, so which of them gets dropped?

Kisnorbo as Morrison can step in.

We don't have a huge choice in midfield apart from Adams

Up front the other possibilities are either injured or shit, and in some cases (DJ) both.

[marbelladave]

The answers to these issues are staring us in the face but neither the management team, nor many of the fans seem able to grasp it.

1) We are not a 'big' team physically, neither do we have a lot of pace up front, so why o why do we persist with the long ball up to Howard? He gets his head to a lot of balls but is rarely able to control where his 'flick' is going and Fryatt is too slow to pick up anything not directed right to him. Because the ball is played forward so quickly our wingers are too wide to help and our midfield too deep to support, result lost possession.

2) The return of Kisnorbo has brought us back to last season, defending too deep and losing our ability to play the ball out of defense. The result is that without the defensive midfield deployed for most of last season, we are shipping goals.

Whilst both Kisnorbo and Howard are wholehearted players and often play well as individuals, what they bring to the team tactically is just plain wrong!

So.

We need to get back to the personnel and the style that our back 4 had earlier in the season, play the ball out to feet, get King and Oakley involved early and build attacks from the back.

Keeping the ball on the ground allows Fryatt (for the moment) to lead the line with 2 or 3 of our pacier players in support. This will automatically bring our wide men in from the wings where they can attack the channels or even the centre backs. Extra support in wide positions comes from the fullbacks!

Play to our strengths, not to our weakness!

[davieG]

The answers to these issues are staring us in the face but neither the management team, nor many of the fans seem able to grasp it.

1) We are not a 'big' team physically, neither do we have a lot of pace up front, so why o why do we persist with the long ball up to Howard? He gets his head to a lot of balls but is rarely able to control where his 'flick' is going and Fryatt is too slow to pick up anything not directed right to him. Because the ball is played forward so quickly our wingers are too wide to help and our midfield too deep to support, result lost possession.

2) The return of Kisnorbo has brought us back to last season, defending too deep and losing our ability to play the ball out of defense. The result is that without the defensive midfield deployed for most of last season, we are shipping goals.

Whilst both Kisnorbo and Howard are wholehearted players and often play well as individuals, what they bring to the team tactically is just plain wrong!

So.

We need to get back to the personnel and the style that our back 4 had earlier in the season, play the ball out to feet, get King and Oakley involved early and build attacks from the back.

Keeping the ball on the ground allows Fryatt (for the moment) to lead the line with 2 or 3 of our pacier players in support. This will automatically bring our wide men in from the wings where they can attack the channels or even the centre backs. Extra support in wide positions comes from the fullbacks!

Play to our strengths, not to our weakness!

I know the majority on here prefer Henderson but he's also a major part of the problem as he rarely and sometimes never passes the ball out. He just doesn't have the confidence to throw the damn ball!

[Zingari]

I know the majority on here prefer Henderson but he's also a major part of the problem as he rarely and sometimes never passes the ball out. He just doesn't have the confidence to throw the damn ball!

surely they could work on something at the training ground , eg get the full backs to look for good positions to take the ball from him via a short pass and work on distribution from there

[davieG]

surely they could work on something at the training ground , eg get the full backs to look for good positions to take the ball from him via a short pass and work on distribution from there

You'd have thought so, but if you watch Henderson he sees someone calling for it, hesitates, puts his hand up to signal wait/no and then hoofs it.

A goalkeeper needs to collect and throw the ball to a defender almost in one movement, he should know where his defenders are headed and they should be on their way as soon as they see he's going to catch the ball, but Henderson is so so slow to do this the chance is either lost or he doesn't have the confidence to carry it out.

[Lovejoy]

surely they could work on something at the training ground , eg get the full backs to look for good positions to take the ball from him via a short pass and work on distribution from there

Sven banned his keepers from kicking from hand at Man City. I'm not suggesting this, but looking to build from the back might be an idea, though in recent times whenever the ball gets passed around at the back, they get booed, so possibly not .

[Zingari]

You'd have thought so, but if you watch Henderson he sees someone calling for it, hesitates, puts his hand up to signal wait/no and then hoofs it.

A goalkeeper needs to collect and throw the ball to a defender almost in one movement, he should know where his defenders are headed and they should be on their way as soon as they see he's going to catch the ball, but Henderson is so so slow to do this the chance is either lost or he doesn't have the confidence to carry it out.

yes thats what i mean , and it should be easily achievable with practice practic practice .

someone needs to get them on the training ground so they can do it in their sleep

[Thracian]

yes thats what i mean , and it should be easily achievable with practice practic practice .

someone needs to get them on the training ground so they can do it in their sleep

Assistance at the training ground?

You mean like with corners, free-kicks, runs off the ball and suchlike?

If so, I'd forget it.

Henderson's been here years and DavieG's described him perfectly.

But if his distributive sluggisness has not been noticed and corrected yet, I cannot imagine it ever will be.

Though I don't know why. You'd think it would be simple - all about reading the situation earlier and acting faster.

[dandannieldanok]

Kisnorbo is no different to last season, so why are people only now deciding he's not so fantasic after all ?

Because people on here need a scapegoat to target on and intensify their criticisms. No-one seems to be able to accept that the team as a whole has been playing poorly for a week or two now.

[dandannieldanok]

I know the majority on here prefer Henderson but he's also a major part of the problem as he rarely and sometimes never passes the ball out. He just doesn't have the confidence to throw the damn ball!

Martin went through periods in games where he either threw the ball or passed it, and I can't remember once where it grew into a decent attacking move. In a number of cases his throws put us under pressure, he was responsible for Mattock's booking against Northampton.

[davieG]

Martin went through periods in games where he either threw the ball or passed it, and I can't remember once where it grew into a decent attacking move. In a number of cases his throws put us under pressure, he was responsible for Mattock's booking against Northampton.

Yes, so one occasion it caused a problem as opposed to the continual giving away of the ball by the hoofing of Henderson. It's no coincidence that the degree of hoofing has increased recently and it's not all down to Kisnorbo.

I think our early season play where we were attacking down the wings was helped in no small way by Martin's throws which enabled the ball to be threaded through the defence to the wingers or to Fryatt on the deck. Granted as time wore on Martin started to kick it more often but no where near as much as Henderson, who as I've said rarely if ever throws it. I'm not advocating no kicking just some would be nice and we just don't get it from Henderson.

[stulcfc]

good player just needs time after a while out ay one slagging him off are pricks until he has more games

[Lovejoy]

Because people on here need a scapegoat to target on and intensify their criticisms. No-one seems to be able to accept that the team as a whole has been playing poorly for a week or two now.

It's worse than that though, some players can do no wrong, others no right.

good player just needs time after a while out ay one slagging him off are pricks until he has more games

Or maybe people have realised that he isn't so amazing after all.

[ivarti]

It's worse than that though, some players can do no wrong, others no right.

Or maybe people have realised that he isn't so amazing after all.

I started this discussion and as a long life City fan and a licenced football coach I must say that I hoped for the responce that you have given.

Swansea played themselves out of this divison last season and build a team on a game plan, they are now doing well in the Championship. Kisnorbo must be coached to play with Pearsons game plan and strategy. What worries me is that the way City play change with the player that are in the team. That makes me worried long term and it shows that Mr Pearson an his coaching staff have a problem with a long term game plan which is the only thing that can City back on track.

Things were ok in the start of the season, but if you have player disrupting your way of playing, then they either don't have the abillity to play in a certain style or they just do what they want and don't listen to the gaffer, I don't think that is the situation.

Some of the comments here especially from Trician are well documented and shows that he knows a bit of football.

There is no doubt that Kisnorbo might have a job to do somewhere else, but if City wants to progress and start playing a game of football that evenutally will see us back in the Premiership then you cannot have players that are totally out of structure.

I started to support Leicester under the days of Jimmy Bloomfield and this guy had a vision on how football should be played, and they did fantastically. Martin O'Neill changed things to the better everyday, building a team that slightly changed over the years and at the end when O'Neill left were almost on their way to be the best team in England. Peter Taylor took over a team that just needed a few good signings and additions to his team, but he destroyed everything rushing things too fast, changing things too fast without using what O'Neill had build up.

I hoped that City in Pearson had a manager that had a vision and a strategy, but now I'm worried and my thoughts are that we will get desperate again and not be able to get this right.

Let's hope I'm wrong

[Salieri]

I started this discussion and as a long life City fan and a licenced football coach I must say that I hoped for the responce that you have given.

Swansea played themselves out of this divison last season and build a team on a game plan, they are now doing well in the Championship. Kisnorbo must be coached to play with Pearsons game plan and strategy. What worries me is that the way City play change with the player that are in the team. That makes me worried long term and it shows that Mr Pearson an his coaching staff have a problem with a long term game plan which is the only thing that can City back on track.

Things were ok in the start of the season, but if you have player disrupting your way of playing, then they either don't have the abillity to play in a certain style or they just do what they want and don't listen to the gaffer, I don't think that is the situation.

Some of the comments here especially from Trician are well documented and shows that he knows a bit of football.

There is no doubt that Kisnorbo might have a job to do somewhere else, but if City wants to progress and start playing a game of football that evenutally will see us back in the Premiership then you cannot have players that are totally out of structure.

I started to support Leicester under the days of Jimmy Bloomfield and this guy had a vision on how football should be played, and they did fantastically. Martin O'Neill changed things to the better everyday, building a team that slightly changed over the years and at the end when O'Neill left were almost on their way to be the best team in England. Peter Taylor took over a team that just needed a few good signings and additions to his team, but he destroyed everything rushing things too fast, changing things too fast without using what O'Neill had build up.

I hoped that City in Pearson had a manager that had a vision and a strategy, but now I'm worried and my thoughts are that we will get desperate again and not be able to get this right.

Let's hope I'm wrong

Not so sure about that. I think the style of play and personnel to an extent would differ considerably between divisions. The one and only priority is to build a team to get us out of this division, if and when that happens, changes can be made to cope with the demands of the Championship.

Also, O'Neill did indeed leave us in very good shape but to say we were (almost) on the way to being the best team in England is maybe just a slight exaggeration!

[Lovejoy]

I started this discussion and as a long life City fan and a licenced football coach I must say that I hoped for the responce that you have given.

Swansea played themselves out of this divison last season and build a team on a game plan, they are now doing well in the Championship. Kisnorbo must be coached to play with Pearsons game plan and strategy. What worries me is that the way City play change with the player that are in the team. That makes me worried long term and it shows that Mr Pearson an his coaching staff have a problem with a long term game plan which is the only thing that can City back on track.

Things were ok in the start of the season, but if you have player disrupting your way of playing, then they either don't have the abillity to play in a certain style or they just do what they want and don't listen to the gaffer, I don't think that is the situation.

Some of the comments here especially from Trician are well documented and shows that he knows a bit of football.

There is no doubt that Kisnorbo might have a job to do somewhere else, but if City wants to progress and start playing a game of football that evenutally will see us back in the Premiership then you cannot have players that are totally out of structure.

I started to support Leicester under the days of Jimmy Bloomfield and this guy had a vision on how football should be played, and they did fantastically. Martin O'Neill changed things to the better everyday, building a team that slightly changed over the years and at the end when O'Neill left were almost on their way to be the best team in England. Peter Taylor took over a team that just needed a few good signings and additions to his team, but he destroyed everything rushing things too fast, changing things too fast without using what O'Neill had build up.

I hoped that City in Pearson had a manager that had a vision and a strategy, but now I'm worried and my thoughts are that we will get desperate again and not be able to get this right.

Let's hope I'm wrong