Levein's Future At LCFC

[Chandler]

Come the end of the season Levein will have had 30 games in charge of LCFC. If we continue on our current trajectory I think we will have to start asking some serious questions about his style of management and his judgement.

There is a school of thinking (the dominant one I think) that says he needs to be given time to sort out the 'mess.' That if we are patient, and stick by him, that things will sort themselves out.

Expectations though, of what 'sorting out' in practice really means, are varied. For some it means promotion, for others just reaching a play-off place. For a small minority it means being content with mid table mediocrity for a season or two.

But is he worth giving time? What does his record here show? And what about his 'achievements' elsewhere? How did the fans at his previous clubs regard him then and now (even taking into account the 'fickle bonehead factor - other clubs have them too!)?

I'll be honest with you, when I first heard of Levein's appointment I was taken aback. I thought it was a bold and imaginative bit of head hunting. Frankly, I was dreading a Hoddle or a Redknapp. But it didn't take long to scratch the surface and find out the real reason the board had gone for him - money. We got him on the cheap.

And it didn't take too long either, for other doubts to start surfacing. For example, that he hadn't been well regarded by a large section of Hearts fans for a considerable period who saw him as an 'establishment' figure rather than his 'own' man.

He then seriously underestimated how difficult the Championship was by comparing it (unfavourably) to one of the biggest joke leagues in Europe - the SPL. And more recently he show his contempt for his matchday role by announcing 'jolly's in the heather to scoop up more tartan rejects.

Some of this is all bye the bye. But it is indicative of a certain mindset. I think Levein's eye is on the main chance. To get into the Premiership. But not necessarily with us. And certainly not even in the medium term with us. He thinks he is a potential Champions League coach. He thinks...

I have three main reservations about Levein which are:

1) Motivation - or rather the lack of it. He is not a charismatic, fiery or even a bitter and twisted Jock. He is a dour, serious Jock. In fact he's also quite a nice guy. Unfortunately, as we all know nice guys are losers.

2) Acquisitions - you can forget most SPL players unless they are Auld Firm regulars. We need good Premiership squad players (who have hacked it at this level) or precocious types from the Championship. Levein doesn't have enough firm contacts to pull off enough of these deals.

3) Team Record - the stats don't look good. In fact his points return per game say if he had been in charge since the beginning of the season we would be in Brigton's position now. And the form is DETERIORATING. The more he shapes things in his own image and likeness the worse things get. HE IS CAUSING THE MESS. That's why I don't advocate further signing at present.

Come the close season the board will have a tough decision to make. Just hope things will sort THEMSELVES out (no thanks to Levein). Or make a proactive appointment. My position?

A new face in charge when the players report at Belvoir Road come July.

[Sparky]

i dont think the club could even contemplate sacking him due to the huge pay off he would be likely to recieve , we have got to give him a chance to build HIS squad for next season . if the side is still struggling then im sure he will go

[breadandcheese]

I think you are correct that Levein underestimated the championship when he arrived, but more than that, I think he underestimated the size of the task ahead of him here at Leicester. Only on arriving here have the home truths become apparent of the poor youth setup, the lack of progression and continuity in the team, the lack of playing hierarchy at the club. Whilst these are the effects of administration two years ago, it needs somebody to tackle these issues to build the base from which to build.

Levein's record has been nothing short of poor, but the question to be asked is whether it is the playing personnel or the management? Chandler, you have made no secret of your belief that the players we have are good enough to be much higher up the league. I would agree this is true to a point, maybe one or two places higher up the league, however, I would fall on the side of questioning the quality of the playing personnel as to the driving reason for our poor position.

It would be no exaggeration or disservice to suggest that we "bullied" our way to promotion from this league under Micky two seasons ago. This season we do not have the players to do that and I think it is that which ultimately cost Micky in the end. Levein has not brought in any players who one would describe as rectifying this situation and providing that physical nature (No. Gudjonnson is most certainly not a person to do this). In that respect, that is the biggest question mark over Levein in my mind. (I do not know what Kisnorbo is like having never seen him, but am not overly optimistic based on some of the postings of Hearts' fans - however, Kisnorbo is coming on a free so it is not a massive risk)

It does seem from Leicester's performances that Levein does not play a longball bully game. It is thus no coincidence that certain players have performed better in this environment e.g. Gillespie, Williams, whilst other players have been hindered and exposed, e.g. Gudjonsson, Tiatto.

However, as I said last night to a friend, go through the squad and tell me the names of the players who you consider to be good enough to play for Leicester next season (and not just do a job). The answer was five. Walker, Dublin, Maybury, McCarthy, Hughes. That sums up our problems, only five. Out of those, Levein has signed three of the names mentioned.

Whilst Levein has plummed the SPL (rightly or wrongly?), there is a clear indication that he is intent on scouting Europe for the players he wants (recent trips to Slovenia, France, Sweden, etc). This is similar to Burley's approach at Derby. It can certainly not be seen as a bad thing casting the scouting net far and wide. In this respect, I am interested to see the acqusitions we make, which will probably not be the "big names" of last summer - Connolly, Dublin, Keown, Gudjonsson, Williams, Tiatto, Makin, etc. In that respect, I do not believe we will be emboldened by the signings Levein makes (which could work for us with realistic expectations, rather than the automatic promotion this season - yes I believed it too). Furthermore, whilst De Vries has been a bad buy so far without any signs of improvement, his other signings have been excellent acquisitions at good prices. Even De Vries was cheap.

Now, to suggest Levein doesn't seem interested (which I have heard from some fans - although not from you Chandler) is a disservice to him. He does care, which leads to his motivational and inspirational qualities. These can be questioned, particularly looking at how some players have performed recently. I think many of the players have realised already who will be kept and who will be released at the end of the season. This is coming across in certain performances. It would be a challenge for most managers to motivate players when in that mindset. In that respect, it is very difficult to judge Levein on this.

With regards our deteriorating performance through Levein shaping his own team, I think this is a harsh assessment, particularly when Levein is working with players who are not good enough for the style of football Levein plays. In this respect, signings have to be made. The difference between us is that where I see evidence of improvements and prospect, you see wasted opportunities and letdowns, stemming from your belief the playing staff is good enough. I the think that to accept your viewpoint, is to take the same view as Levein when he joined, by not appreciating the size of the necessary rebuilding here at Leicester.

To me the indications are positive. Levein has identified areas he wants to improve (behind the scenes) and this is happening - assessing the youth set-up, improving scouting networks, building playing hierarchy, etc. When the off-pitch situation is improved, the performances will then improve and the results will come. I do not believe it can be any other way.

[Mad Jacks Eyes]

Lets get this season out of the way, give him a full pre-season where he gets the chance to sort out the mess, bring his own players in etc. Then if its not working 10 games in, THEN lets start thinking about things.

[Chandler]

Lets get this season out of the way, give him a full pre-season where he gets the chance to sort out the mess, bring his own players in etc. Then if its not working 10 games in, THEN lets start thinking about things.

96046[/snapback]

No! No! No! That's why things have fallen apart this season. Read UEFA's research on this.

Summer is the season for back stabbing!

[Oadlad]

Threee good views all worth the time reading. The overall consideration is that CL' appointment was to signal the end of short termism. This had blighted the last couple of seasons. As a result, it is pretty pointless again jumping in to short term assessments. That Wigan team was the culmination of three years work and to expect CL to do the same job in six months is naive. It's true he is feeling his way but we have to be patient and bear the pain of transition. He is working with players who mainly have been acquired by others. To mould his own squad will take time. I am pretty optimistic. Why? Because he's done it once. He went as far as he could and was ambitious enough to look for a bigger challenge. Of course he may fail but so might another man who would need to build HIS squad and bingo we are back to short termism!

[Durnerz]

It takes time to build a squad and get them playing the way you want. Leveins not even had a full season yet and mainly due to the fact he's not done a MON and taken us from nothing to something has had a lot of fans on his back. This is what everyones expecting in my opinion, someone with the genius of MON to take us back to glory, what they forget is we have a team with very little drive and bits and pieces missing to it, hopefully those gaps will be filled in the summer and we will be back on track, but until then its just stupid calling for Leveins head, he's working with what he has, he's still learning about english football, give the man time for pre season work, we have seen glimpses of his tactical brain (Charlton away, Plymouth at home) my only criticism thus far is he leaves subs quite late, but the main problem at present is the players I feel. Gaz Williams who i'd regard as our playmaker type man in the centre cannot be bothered half the time, doesn't move and create space for himself and others, doesn't want the ball half the time, plays when it suits him, he must hang out with Joey Gudjonsson because he seems to be the same at times.

[step]

How can anyone blame CL for the shity mess we are in. I do not know.

[SamuearlJackson]

Why did you take out the reference to Mr Walsh Chandler?

I am quite frankly amazed by the previous statement about Walsh, but at least you have edited it out now.

Please explain using a similar/the same set of stringent criteria that you set for Levein why Walsh would have a decent probability of doing a better job.

SamJ

[Chandler]

Why did you take out the reference to Mr Walsh Chandler?

I am quite frankly amazed by the previous statement about Walsh, but at least you have edited it out now.

Please explain using a similar/the same set of stringent criteria that you set for Levein why Walsh would have a decent probability of doing a better job.

SamJ

96227[/snapback]

I don't know which particular statement of mine about Steve Walsh you are referring to. And quite frankly, I am amazed that you are amazed, SJ.

Don't worry SJ, I have every intention of putting forward a watertight case for Mr Walsh in the very near future.

After I have spoken to one or two people...

[SamuearlJackson]

I mean the statement suggesting that you'd like Mr Walsh to take over as manager in the summer (the bit you edited out of the last sentence of the first post in this thread!) - and I'm amazed that you're amazed that I'm amazed

I think you'll have to work hard to make it a water-tight case to be honest, but I'll await it with interest...

SamJ

[stez]

I mean the statement suggesting that you'd like Mr Walsh to take over as manager in the summer (the bit you edited out of the last sentence of the first post in this thread!) - and I'm amazed that you're amazed that I'm amazed

I think you'll have to work hard to make it a water-tight case to be honest, but I'll await it with interest...

SamJ

96264[/snapback]

i saw that sentence too, something to do with whippinh the ne'er do wells into shape.

anyway if walsh was to come back it should be as a coach first. you can always point to the likes of chris coleman, who went in as manager straight away, but people like that are rare (although he's not doing so well this season).

[Ric Flair]

I think you are correct that Levein underestimated the championship when he arrived, but more than that, I think he underestimated the size of the task ahead of him here at Leicester.  Only on arriving here have the home truths become apparent of the poor youth setup, the lack of progression and continuity in the team, the lack of playing hierarchy at the club.  Whilst these are the effects of administration two years ago, it needs somebody to tackle these issues to build the base from which to build.

Levein's record has been nothing short of poor, but the question to be asked is whether it is the playing personnel or the management?  Chandler, you have made no secret of your belief that the players we have are good enough to be much higher up the league.  I would agree this is true to a point, maybe one or two places higher up the league, however, I would fall on the side of questioning the quality of the playing personnel as to the driving reason for our poor position.

It would be no exaggeration or disservice to suggest that we "bullied" our way to promotion from this league under Micky two seasons ago.  This season we do not have the players to do that and I think it is that which ultimately cost Micky in the end.  Levein has not brought in any players who one would describe as rectifying this situation and providing that physical nature (No. Gudjonnson is most certainly not a person to do this).  In that respect, that is the biggest question mark over Levein in my mind.  (I do not know what Kisnorbo is like having never seen him, but am not overly optimistic based on some of the postings of Hearts' fans - however, Kisnorbo is coming on a free so it is not a massive risk)

It does seem from Leicester's performances that Levein does not play a longball bully game.  It is thus no coincidence that certain players have performed better in this environment e.g. Gillespie, Williams, whilst other players have been hindered and exposed, e.g. Gudjonsson, Tiatto.

However, as I said last night to a friend, go through the squad and tell me the names of the players who you consider to be good enough to play for Leicester next season (and not just do a job).  The answer was five.  Walker, Dublin, Maybury, McCarthy, Hughes.  That sums up our problems, only five.  Out of those, Levein has signed three of the names mentioned.

Whilst Levein has plummed the SPL (rightly or wrongly?), there is a clear indication that he is intent on scouting Europe for the players he wants (recent trips to Slovenia, France, Sweden, etc).  This is similar to Burley's approach at Derby.  It can certainly not be seen as a bad thing casting the scouting net far and wide.  In this respect, I am interested to see the acqusitions we make, which will probably not be the "big names" of last summer - Connolly, Dublin, Keown, Gudjonsson, Williams, Tiatto, Makin, etc.  In that respect, I do not believe we will be emboldened by the signings Levein makes (which could work for us with realistic expectations, rather than the automatic promotion this season - yes I believed it too). Furthermore, whilst De Vries has been a bad buy so far without any signs of improvement, his other signings have been excellent acquisitions at good prices.  Even De Vries was cheap.

Now, to suggest Levein doesn't seem interested (which I have heard from some fans - although not from you Chandler) is a disservice to him.  He does care, which leads to his motivational and inspirational qualities.  These can be questioned, particularly looking at how some players have performed recently.  I think many of the players have realised already who will be kept and who will be released at the end of the season.  This is coming across in certain performances.  It would be a challenge for most managers to motivate players when in that mindset.  In that respect, it is very difficult to judge Levein on this.

With regards our deteriorating performance through Levein shaping his own team, I think this is a harsh assessment, particularly when Levein is working with players who are not good enough for the style of football Levein plays.  In this respect, signings have to be made.  The difference between us is that where I see evidence of improvements and prospect, you see wasted opportunities and letdowns, stemming from your belief the playing staff is good enough.  I  the think that to accept your viewpoint, is to take the same view as Levein when he joined, by not appreciating the size of the necessary rebuilding here at Leicester.

To me the indications are positive.  Levein has identified areas he wants to improve (behind the scenes) and this is happening - assessing the youth set-up, improving scouting networks, building playing hierarchy, etc.  When the off-pitch situation is improved, the performances will then improve and the results will come.  I do not believe it can be any other way.

96045[/snapback]

Nail, Head, The, Hit, On, The

Totally agree.

[dave_binos]

I reckon a lot of you are an unpatient bunch. What you guys need to realise and i hate to say it but you are an AVERAGE championship side. Levein is building for the future and you guys need to realise this.

[Ric Flair]

I reckon a lot of you are an unpatient bunch. What you guys need to realise and i hate to say it but you are an AVERAGE championship side. Levein is building for the future and you guys need to realise this.

96371[/snapback]

How can you say that when for the past 14 years the lowest we've ever been is 6th in the championship. Out of the past 14 years we've lost in 2 play-off finals, won 2 play-off finals, finished 2nd in the league and all the other season's we've been in the premiership. I'd like to see the other 'average' championship teams with that record.

[Chimp]

I reckon a lot of you are an unpatient bunch. What you guys need to realise and i hate to say it but you are an AVERAGE championship side. Levein is building for the future and you guys need to realise this.

96371[/snapback]

How can you say that when for the past 14 years the lowest we've ever been is 6th in the championship. Out of the past 14 years we've lost in 2 play-off finals, won 2 play-off finals, finished 2nd in the league and all the other season's we've been in the premiership. I'd like to see the other 'average' championship teams with that record.

96376[/snapback]

Regardless of our heritage, in the present day we have an average Championship squad. There's no point in believing that we should be doing better right now, or deserve a better squad, due to past achievements. Administration wiped the slate clean.

[dave_binos]

Exactly, as much as i want you guys to do well, you are at the moment an average championship side that are building for the future.

[Simon]

i dont think the club could even contemplate sacking him due to the huge pay off he would be likely to recieve , we have got to give him a chance to build HIS squad for next season . if the side is still struggling then im sure he will go

96025[/snapback]

This is the precise point I have made to Chandler in the past and he STILL refuses to answer it...

[Frenzied]

Why did you take out the reference to Mr Walsh Chandler?

I am quite frankly amazed by the previous statement about Walsh, but at least you have edited it out now.

Please explain using a similar/the same set of stringent criteria that you set for Levein why Walsh would have a decent probability of doing a better job.

SamJ

96227[/snapback]

I don't know which particular statement of mine about Steve Walsh you are referring to. And quite frankly, I am amazed that you are amazed, SJ.

Don't worry SJ, I have every intention of putting forward a watertight case for Mr Walsh in the very near future.

After I have spoken to one or two people...

96252[/snapback]

Walsh as manager?

Nice one. I haven't laughed that much in ages.

We could get Frank Sinclair to be his assistant as he'll need a bit of extra brain power to help him along.

[BartonFox]

Why did you take out the reference to Mr Walsh Chandler?

I am quite frankly amazed by the previous statement about Walsh, but at least you have edited it out now.

Please explain using a similar/the same set of stringent criteria that you set for Levein why Walsh would have a decent probability of doing a better job.

SamJ

96227[/snapback]

I don't know which particular statement of mine about Steve Walsh you are referring to. And quite frankly, I am amazed that you are amazed, SJ.

Don't worry SJ, I have every intention of putting forward a watertight case for Mr Walsh in the very near future.

After I have spoken to one or two people...

96252[/snapback]

What as manager?

Confirms everything I thought

[step]

I have no doubt a few hearts fans where glad to see the back of CL. but all the messages I have read contradict that so I dont understand why you think that way about CL

When did CL say anything that makes you think he thought the championship was going to be breeze, Give him some credit, he has been around enough to know that any new job is going to be difficult. He is more likely to be amazed that a club like ours has very few quality players (but I doubt he will ever say so in public) and if the board dont support him financially so he can get better players, I have no doubt that he will recieve a better offer and move on into the premiur.

1) Motivation - Tonight williams says that the team spirit has improved since the new managment came in. Thats a motivated player. None where motivated, once MA had battered them.

I certainly have not seen anything that makes me think CL is a nice guy and an easy push over, In fact his history proves the oposite applies

2) Acquisitions - One out of the five players CL has signed is suspect. MA got rid of the quality and bought in a team of has beens, so I dont think critising CL ability to bring in players gives any support to your anti CL campaign

3) Team Record - The team and players was bought in by MA. 90% of the fans think they play better football since MA left. You are the minority so again this fantasy contradict you argument. Especially as we manage to draw so many games. no further signings? how can any loyal city fan, be so obsesed with a previous manager that you make a statment like that.

The board will not even concider CL possition, he will be there next season and for two seasons after that

[Chandler]

I have no doubt some hearts fans where glad to see the back of CL. but all the messages I have read contradict that so I dont understand why you think that way about CL

When did CL say anything that makes you think he thought the championship was going to be breeze,  Give him some credit,  he has been around enough to know that any new job is going to be difficult.  He is more likely to be amazed that a club like ours has very few quality players (but I doubt he will ever say so in public) and if the board dont support him financially so he can get better players, I have no doubt that he will recieve a better offer and move on.

1) Motivation - Tonight williams says that the team spirit has improved since the new managment came in.  That a motivated player. none where motivated when once MA had battered them.

I certainly have not seen anything that makes me think CL is a nice guy and an easy push over, In fact his history proves the oposite applies

2) Acquisitions - One out of the five players CL has signed is suspect.  MA got rid of the quality and bought in a team of has beens, so I dont think critising CL ability to bring in players gives any support to your anti CL campaign

3) Team Record - The team and players was bought in by MA. 90% of the fans think they play better football since MA left.  You are the minority so again this fantasy contradict you argument.  Especially as we manage to draw so many games.  no further signings? how can any loyal city fan, be so obsesed with a previous manager that you make a statment like that.

The board will not even concider CL possition, he will be there next season and for two seasons after that

96709[/snapback]

LCFC is not a troupe of woofter ice skaters, Step. There are no point for artistic interpretation in the Championship.

'Team record' means points on the boards and recent form guide. And there's no argument about whose record is better. No argument about whose record worsens the longer he is in the hot seat.

Just for you, Step, LCFC will skate its way to Division One under his management.

[step]

If MA had stayed on at city his record would have been concidrably worse than CL. That is what I and most city fans think.

[FNQ]

Is it really? I disagree.

I think everyones secretly thinking 'so we didn't play particularly attractive football under MA, but would we really be 3 points above the relegation zone?'

Are you thinking? What I'm thinking?

Probably not.

[Knighton Matt]

Is it really? I disagree.

I think everyones secretly thinking 'so we didn't play particularly attractive football under MA, but would we really be 3 points above the relegation zone?'

Are you thinking? What I'm thinking?

Probably not.

96777[/snapback]

is your name michael howard?