Standing - The SAG reply

[davieG]

SIT DOWN, YOU'RE ROCKING THE BOAT!

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10:30 - 28 April 2005

Fanzone columnist gary silke last week called on Leicester City's safety advisory group to be less draconian in its attitude to fans standing up at the walkers stadium. group chair Adrian Russell, left, responds

As chairman of the Safety Advisory Group (SAG), referred to in Fanzone (April 21), I must respond to some of the ill-informed comments and unjustified criticisms.

It is important to explain the reasons why action is taken about persistent standing in seated areas.

I base my response on a document produced by the Football Licensing Authority (FLA), in association with, among others, the Football Association, FA Premier League, Football League and the Football Safety Officers' Association.

Government policy that all Premiership and Championship clubs should provide seated accommodation only arose as a consequence of Lord Justice Taylor's report into the Hillsborough disaster.

His report said: "There is no panacea which will achieve total safety and cure all problems of behaviour and crowd control. However, I am satisfied that seating does more to achieve those objectives than any other single measure."

The FLA document recognised there will always be moments of excitement when spectators will naturally stand for a brief moment. It is only persistent standing which is the focus of attention.

Tackling persistent standing requires a concerted approach by all the relevant bodies.

Wherever possible, the ground management and football authorities should be given the opportunity to address the issue through education, persuasion and positive crowd management, before local authorities, or the FLA, take action to reduce capacities.

Should such action be necessary, says the document, local authorities should receive the full and public support of the clubs and football authorities.

Each club has its own ground regulations based upon recommendations by the Premier and Football Leagues. These require that:

* No-one may stand in any seated area while play is in progress. Persistent standing while play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the ground.

* The club reserves the right to eject any person failing to comply with any of the ground regulations or whose presence is, or could reasonably be construed as, constituting a source of danger, nuisance or annoyance to any other person.

In the light of Mr Silke's criticism, I need to explain the role of the Safety Advisory Group and the steps that have been taken to address persistent standing at Leicester City.

Under the Safety of Sports Grounds Act 1975, it is the local authority (City Council) which is responsible for issuing and enforcing a safety certificate.

Lord Taylor's report also recommended that local authorities should set up an advisory group.

The SAG exists to provide specialist advice and as an important forum within which all relevant agencies can develop a joined-up approach to spectator safety.

However, the importance of its safety role is illustrated in guidance which warns it "could come under scrutiny in the event of a serious safety failure at a sports ground."

Local membership of the SAG follows national guidelines and comprises senior representatives of Leicester City Council, the police, fire and ambulance services, as well as a supporters' group representative.

Hopefully, this helps to address the criticism that the SAG is "faceless" and "uncontactable".

It might now be useful to summarise how the issue of persistent standing has been dealt with at Leicester City.

Efforts were made to tackle the problem at Filbert Street, but the conversion of terraces into seated areas often provides poor viewing angles, making it hard to eliminate the problem.

The move made to the Walkers Stadium, with its improved views, removed the "need" for persistent standing, which reduced dramatically.

The seating areas of modern stadia are designed to provide the best possible view and are steeper than terraces, which exacerbates the hazards associated with standing.

A range of educational and tougher measures tried to stop persistent standing by the few home supporters who continued to do so after the move.

Towards the end of last season, it became clear that, while the club was making significant progress with its own supporters, this work was being undermined by visiting fans of certain clubs, many of them standing throughout the match.

The problem was exacerbated by high-profile clubs doing little to tackle this problem among large sections of support within their own grounds.

This season, I undertook to ensure that attention was focused on the problem of visiting supporters.

In the close-season, local authorities which are responsible for Premiership and Championship clubs agreed to adopt a common approach in tackling the problem, and, where necessary, to reduce capacities in problem areas.

The approach is best illustrated by the visit of Cardiff City, one of the problem clubs. The SAG recommended a number of measures, including a reduction in capacity for visiting supporters from 3,000 to 1,000.

The club presented a detailed safety management plan and a capacity of 1,500 visiting supporters was approved.

Only 1,200 supporters attended yet, despite the sterling efforts of the club's safety team, the majority of Cardiff fans stood throughout and keeping gangways clear became the principal objective.

There were no accidents, but this may not have been the case had this package of measures not been put in place.

I have always expressed the concern that reducing the capacity for visiting supporters financially penalises a home club whose commitment to safety is of the highest order. The only effective way to tackle this problem is for football authorities, at a national level, to impose sanctions against clubs who are doing little to address the issue in their own grounds and among their travelling supporters.

The lack of such action to date is deplorable.

The FLA has, as recently as April 8, written to all SAG chairmen urging that action is taken to tackle the problem.

I therefore strongly refute the allegations that the Leicester SAG has "unrealistic ambitions", that it is "particularly draconian" or is carrying out its duties "with more zeal than others".

While it is not really my place to comment on how things are dealt with elsewhere, one has to question whether others are, in this respect, properly fulfilling their responsibilities.

As a group, the Leicester SAG has a simple objective to help ensure the safety of spectators at the Walkers Stadium - and that is why we are working to address the problem of persistent standing.

Mr Silke appears to view efforts to eliminate standing as an attempt to suppress vociferous support during a match.

This is clearly not the case and I would point out that the vast majority of fans who created a "wall of noise for large parts of the Wolves game" were sitting down while they did so.

I would ask all supporters to continue to co-operate with the club, the City Council and the SAG in helping to ensure safety within the Walkers Stadium by staying in your seats - unless of course Leicester score a goal!

[Louise]

What a load of rubbish. Half patronising, and half full of contradictions. He says 'oh we're not a strict SAG....we just do the job better than everyone else' Hmmmmm. I wish he'd make some proper arguments about having no standing rather than just saying 'hey you can stand up if we score'. Why is it more dangerous for people to stand up when we are playing than it is for 20k to stand up at HT/Final Whistle? Why is it ok for people to jump up and down in moments of excitement, or stand in long queues on the steps at FT but not ok for them to be standing stationary in front of their seats. Surely the main problem at Hillsborough was because there were too many people in too smaller space, that doesn't happen in all-seater stadiums when everyone has their own space (and especially not in ours now with 10k empty seats). If he said 'people behind those standing might not be able to see' or 'people standing are better at throwing objects' those would be better reasons. He just comes off as patronising.

[C-man]

Throughout that long reply, did he once explain WHY standing was dangerous??

Louise is right, the Hillsborough disaster happened because there was too many people in an area. So if the capacity was the same and people stood behind the seats, what is the danger in that?

When a team score and the fans jump up and down for that brief moment, risk of injury is much greater than standing almost still behind a seat for the whole game!

Couldnt they create a standing block or stand of the stadium?

Reply again with better reasoning or allow us to stand at games

[shack]

why do you stand up anyway - to get a better view or just to annoy the person behind?

I mean, what difference would a couple of feet upwards make to your view anyway, if everyone stood up then it would be the same view as sitting down!

It's like someone pointing out something a mile away in the distance and you leaning forward 12 2 to get a closer look!

[Frenzied]

I'd rather stand but the problem isn't the club, it's the government. Health and safety rules, following the Taylor Report into Hillsborough, now dictate that all Premiership and Championship stadiums must be all-seater and fans must sit for the vast majority of the game.

If you want to take this up you need to contact the relevant government office. There are also campaigns to try and reintroduce standing at football matches.

[Louise]

My issue in this instance is not so much with the regulations, but with the SAG bloke who wrote that article and who fails to give proper answers and reasoning behind the laws that he enforces, while also contradicting himself on several points.

[john_lcfc]

shack we stand to create an atmosphere and because we are pashionate about our team. who are the loudest sets of fans. cardiff portsouth leeds etc and a very large proportion of their fans stand up throughout the game. Stand up and fcuk these safety people

[Steven]

I am all for sitting at games myself, but if you want to stand then facilities should be made available if there is no safety issue. I would point to the SAG person that if 1,200 Cardiff fans can stand for an entire game without incident, how can standing (even in areas not designed for standing) be considered inately dangerous.

He wanted joined up thinking, but it would seem to me that the premise for the "Safety Advisory Group", that standing is unsafe is not proven. Moreover if it were the case then why is it not banned in Trains, Buses, Tubes and in all Public places.

[Frenzied]

The fact that standing became obligatory was really a knee-jerk reaction to Hillsborough. I guess the government at the time wanted to be seen to be doing something about both hooliganism and safety. They didn't realise that seats can make quite effective weapons when ripped out. Nor was the fact fans were standing at Hillsborough the central reason for so many deaths - it was poor policing and the fact that supporters were fenced in.

It was sheer idiocy on the part of the government and followed on from the ridiculous idea of supporter identity cards.

[shack]

shack we stand to create an atmosphere and because we are pashionate about our team. who are the loudest sets of fans. cardiff portsouth leeds etc and a very large proportion of their fans stand up throughout the game. Stand up and fcuk these safety people   

100149[/snapback]

OK, but why do you stand up, I've been to matches and watched countless people stand up when the ball is oin their own half - why?

Don't get me wrong, I used to love going to a game, pay the £8 and stand and watch - it used to be the best way, but now the seats are in I sit and watch.

How do you ceate an atmosphere by standing up when the ball is played in your half and sit down again when it's in the other. How's standing up being passionate?

I've got no objections, I don't want to campaign - just curious as to why someone goes to a game and is up and down like a yo-yo. It's been bugging me for years - to which everyone I've asked can't tell me - it's always...'erm...coz we do'.

so...why do you stand up?

[john_lcfc]

well its because we do i prefer standing and i will continue to stand wherever possible no matter what legislation is put against our club or anything. that may sound bad but i no hundreds more would do the same.

[FNQ]

shack we stand to create an atmosphere and because we are pashionate about our team. who are the loudest sets of fans. cardiff portsouth leeds etc and a very large proportion of their fans stand up throughout the game. Stand up and fcuk these safety people   

100149[/snapback]

OK, but why do you stand up, I've been to matches and watched countless people stand up when the ball is oin their own half - why?

Don't get me wrong, I used to love going to a game, pay the £8 and stand and watch - it used to be the best way, but now the seats are in I sit and watch.

How do you ceate an atmosphere by standing up when the ball is played in your half and sit down again when it's in the other. How's standing up being passionate?

I've got no objections, I don't want to campaign - just curious as to why someone goes to a game and is up and down like a yo-yo. It's been bugging me for years - to which everyone I've asked can't tell me - it's always...'erm...coz we do'.

so...why do you stand up?

100449[/snapback]

He stands up...strangely...because he prefers to just like you prefer to sit. Unfortunately standing and seating don't mix together too well. Thats why there is a NEED for safe standing areas.

Designated standing areas would be much safer than the current situation, with people getting pissed off (like I do) with people standing infront of them and police and stewards inciting those standing. It all creates a bad atmosphere, where the chances of 'hooliganism' is much higher, which is a much bigger threat to safety than standing.

Also, why does it make it 'safe' to stand if a football club is in a certain division?

[john_lcfc]

attendances i suppose. what i dont get is before and at half time people stand why isnt this more dangerous than during t he match, <_<

[Anish]

attendances i suppose. what i dont get is before and at half time people stand why isnt this more dangerous than during t  he match,  <_<

100626[/snapback]

Because at half time half the people are in the concourses to get a drink/pie etc - there is less chance of any problems occurring with people standing.