The Lions Thread.

[Finnegan]

That will raise a few eye-brows and give the anti-Welsh lot ample opportunities to have a moan but I don't see it as all that surprising.

Gutted for Leigh Halfpenny, hope he still gets on the tour. They're claiming it's because he's a utility back but that's rubbish - it's because he's a fly half and I think the injuries already have made McGeechan realise picking such a dangerously small squad and just two fly halves was arguablly pretty stupid.

He might not be on the form of his life but he's still the best-of-the-rest in the UK in my opinion.

[dandannieldanok]

On first glance calling up Hook does appear strange, but I agree with you Finners, there isn't a wealth of choice at fly-half.

[Sparky]

1st tour match this coming saturday , no Tigers , leinster or Euan Murray at Northampton will figure

[Sparky]

Team picked for 1st tour match against a Royal 15 on saturday

British and Irish Lions: 15 Lee Byrne, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Keith Earls, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Ronan O'Gara, 9 Mike Blair; 1 Andrew Sheridan, 2 Matthew Rees, 3 Adam Jones, 4 Simon Shaw, 5 Paul O'Connell,6 Joe Worsley, 7 Martyn Williams, 8 Andy Powell.

Replacements: 16 Lee Mears, 17 Phil Vickery, 18 Alun-Wyn Jones, 19 Stephen Ferris, 20 Mike Phillips, 21 Stephen Jones, 22 Riki Flutey.

[dandannieldanok]

Team picked for 1st tour match against a Royal 15 on saturday

British and Irish Lions: 15 Lee Byrne, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Keith Earls, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 Shane Williams, 10 Ronan O'Gara, 9 Mike Blair; 1 Andrew Sheridan, 2 Matthew Rees, 3 Adam Jones, 4 Simon Shaw, 5 Paul O'Connell,6 Joe Worsley, 7 Martyn Williams, 8 Andy Powell.

Replacements: 16 Lee Mears, 17 Phil Vickery, 18 Alun-Wyn Jones, 19 Stephen Ferris, 20 Mike Phillips, 21 Stephen Jones, 22 Riki Flutey.

I have no idea who the Royal 15 are and if they're any good but you would expect that 15 to do the job.

Looking at the bench you really really hope the starting 15 can do the job.

[Finnegan]

I'm genuinely surprised that neither Phillips, Flutey or AWJ are in the starting fifteen to be honest. Especially given that the rest of the team looks relatively first choice.

Be interesting to see what the first test 15 is anyway.

I tell you what else was interesting, talking to Leinster fans over cup-final weekend about Ronan O'Gara! The amount of them that agree with me that he's an overrated, one-trick-pony bottler is frightening! They really don't like the fact he's consistently in an Ireland shirt let alone a Lions one. I'm sure a lot of it's sour grapes that Munster are the stronger team (generally speaking) but I'm sure a lot of them believe it.

Certainly that lad that played at outside half for Leinster looks like he's got a real career in the game.

[Ultra]

I tell you what else was interesting, talking to Leinster fans over cup-final weekend about Ronan O'Gara! The amount of them that agree with me that he's an overrated, one-trick-pony bottler is frightening! They really don't like the fact he's consistently in an Ireland shirt let alone a Lions one. I'm sure a lot of it's sour grapes that Munster are the stronger team (generally speaking) but I'm sure a lot of them believe it.

Certainly that lad that played at outside half for Leinster looks like he's got a real career in the game.

So it's not only football that attracts a fair amount of one-eyed, fcukwit followers then..

The Leinster-Munster rivalry seems to be similar to that between Liverpool and Manyoo. Neither side seems capable of acknowledging the skills and qualities of the other.

O'Gara's record of success, at club and national level, speaks for itself. It was always likely that he'd be the first-choice fly-half for the Lions, especially after the season he's just had.

The Leinster fly-half (Jonathan Sexton) had a reasonable game last week and does look like a real prospect, but isn't yet quite ready for a Lions tour.

[Finnegan]

O'aye, not suggesting for one moment that Sexton should have been on the tour I'm just saying it's interesting to see that Ireland's opinion on O'Gara isn't mutually agreed.

Rugby is generally a lot milder than football and the rivalries are more about jovial banter than bigotry and hate. Most Munster fans would have been cheering on Leinster in the same way that supposed "West Wales rivals" the Ospreys and the Scarlets would both cheer for each other against any English club.

Throughout sporting history I'm sure there are plenty of well decorated players who have ultimately been carried by a very good generation of team mates. I'm by no means saying that O'Gara isn't a good player but he's also frequently overrated. He's an exceptional kicker, a very technically gifted man with the boot but there's more to your game than just skill. He isn't a remarkable runner and his biggest flaw is terminal - he's horribly inconsistent, moody and hugely affected by confidence.

He HATES physical contact and has time after time been known to shy out of games in which he's targetted (playing... hello!.. South Africa!?) I can think of few players in world sport as guilty of it as him. If either of Hook, Jones or even Wilkinson were fit and on form (a long-shot in the case of the latter) I highly doubt he'd be first choice.

[Ultra]

I'm not denying that O'Gara has flaws. Various opponents over the years have recognised and sometimes exploited them.

But he's just had the most successful season of his career - a league title with Munster and a Grand Slam with Ireland. Even if Hook and/or Wilkinson had been fit, O'Gara would still have probably been the first-choice number 10.

His form in SA, though, will probably depend on what other areas of the team do. He doesn't appear to be a figure who can turn a game around when things are not going well.

[Finnegan]

I hope Hook gets a chance in some of the provincial games. All Wales bias aside, he is a match winner when he's on form - he's a perfect "impact" outside half and it'd be great to see if he can build some form out there with the squad.

And yes, I'm not saying O'Gara's inclusion isn't an inevitability - I just think he'll be a big potential liability too. The Saffers' pack will be all over him.

[Sparky]

I hope Hook gets a chance in some of the provincial games. All Wales bias aside, he is a match winner when he's on form - he's a perfect "impact" outside half and it'd be great to see if he can build some form out there with the squad.

And yes, I'm not saying O'Gara's inclusion isn't an inevitability - I just think he'll be a big potential liability too. The Saffers' pack will be all over him.

Dont worry about that , every player will get a decent chance to impress . You may think 11 or 12 are shoe ins for the test spots but that can change quickly as other players impress in the warm up games. Blair, Croft, Hook and the scottish hooker (Ford ?) stand as much chance as the rest of the original squad. Im gutted for Flannerys omission as he would have been my choice as hooker

[Finnegan]

The lad we really want to recover is this boy 'ere:

:D

I'm so eager to see him put on a Lions shirt and have a run at the Saffers. Talk about crazy seasons, don't get much better than his!

[Sparky]

The lad we really want to recover is this boy 'ere:

I'm so eager to see him put on a Lions shirt and have a run at the Saffers. Talk about crazy seasons, don't get much better than his!

Yeah talented fella , my mate reckons he will go on to have a better career than Shane Williams but still early days to make those sort of statements . He must hit form immidiatley to get a test shirt but i hope he does as a Halfpenny/Byrne/Williams is probably our safest bet (said begrudgingly )

But they MUST all hit form because Kearney/Bowe/Fitzgerald/ will be pushing them hard

[Finnegan]

I think it will be Halfpenny or Williams, really. I think Halfpenny will play the provincial games and be an impact sub in the tests.

I think Bowe, Byrne and Williams will be the back line for a couple of obvious reasons. Firstly, I think they're pretty much the form three but also they're all at the same club.

Halfpenny's great, though, I really enjoy watching him. Big ask for him to be better than Williams at this stage, as you say, but you never know. He's had a brighter start to his test career than Williams in all fairness. Shane didn't REALLY get going at test level until his mid-to-late twenties. I was quite disappointed with him when he first came onto the scene. That said, he was playing for a really shit Wales team then. So who knows?

[Sparky]

I think it will be Halfpenny or Williams, really. I think Halfpenny will play the provincial games and be an impact sub in the tests.

I think Bowe, Byrne and Williams will be the back line for a couple of obvious reasons. Firstly, I think they're pretty much the form three but also they're all at the same club.

Halfpenny's great, though, I really enjoy watching him. Big ask for him to be better than Williams at this stage, as you say, but you never know. He's had a brighter start to his test career than Williams in all fairness. Shane didn't REALLY get going at test level until his mid-to-late twenties. I was quite disappointed with him when he first came onto the scene. That said, he was playing for a really shit Wales team then. So who knows?

I know people have their favorites but im not a big fan of Tommy Bowes . I really wonder if Ugo Monyes been picked for his physical presence and he may have a big say in the tour yet.

Bear in mind O Driscoll went to Australia in 2001 and was well down the pecking order , by the end of the tour he was a star.

The big thing for the Lions is if the 4 nations can gel and thats the big question . Me and you struggle to do that so imagine the players

[Finnegan]

I like to think we bond famously.

Fair point about BO'D, though. But my feelings for Bowe are much like Ultra's for O'Gara. Generally, after the season he's had, he's inevtiably going to be first choice I'd reckon.

[Finnegan]

You can't seriously still want Rob Kearney in.

[dandannieldanok]

Shoddy first effort that, good job the opponents tired or else it would have been an embarrassing defeat.

I've never quite understood the hype around Lee Byrne, but that's more fool me, he's a cracking player on his day and fortunately for the Lions he stood up to be counted.

[Finnegan]

With all due respect to Morgan Stoddart, losing Lee Byrne was a stinging blow to the Scarlets.

He's a different class. Love him.

Kearney is solid, a good runner and will one day be a great player - take nothing away from him. But right now Lee Byrne's a match winner and he isn't, that's the difference.

[Sparky]

You can't seriously still want Rob Kearney in.

Nah he has lost his form , cant even get in the Leinster side. If you notice i did ask for the Wales back three Thursday time and not just because of Byres performance yesterday.

[Finnegan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00kp...The_Lions_Roar/

Definitely worth a watch if you've got half an hour free.

[Ultra]

Need a massive improvement against Golden Lions tonight.

[Finnegan]

It'll get there. Step by step.

I think the performance was poor but I don't really think it's alarm bells time already, it's always going to take a bit of time to stick - especially given the game is constantly getting more and more technical and pro'.

The days of the '74 invincibles rolling up, having a few pints then strolling onto the pitch to do in the Saffers is a lot long gone.

[Ultra]

Yeah, but given that the Lions scored 110 points in their first game of the 2001 tour (when they still lost the series), it doesn't look good.

[Finnegan]

Meh, it's an irrelevance. The first test is worlds away.

This is the rugby equivelant of getting upset about only beating Kettering 3 - 0 in a pre season friendly. Wait and see how things pick up after this next game now he's getting the whole squad in and ready.