Ownership of our ground

[Hackneyisblue]

Is it still the american pension fund?

Do we own any of it?

How much do we still owe?

Do we pay rent or are we mortgaged to them?

Thanks

Hackney

[Ultra]

1) Yep

2) Nope

3) Shedloads

4) You'd have to ask Mandaric or the pension fund's rep on the board. They'll be the only ones who know the terms of our current agreement for the Way.

[MPH]

If i remember correctly, and it's entirely possible i don't, we are renting it from them.

[Ultra]

We were renting it from them. before Mandaric took over.

It's not certain whether we're still doing so, and if so, how much is being paid to them each year.

[ob1kanobe0]

2 years ago, Milan was talking about extending the capacity to 40,000, is that document topped with inches of dust?

[Jon the Hat]

No it is being used to hold open the door of the meeting room in whcih discussions with players are held, so that KIA can hear. Good use IMO.

[jimmer]

No it is being used to hold open the door of the meeting room in whcih discussions with players are held, so that KIA can hear. Good use IMO.

[AmericanScott]

No it is being used to hold open the door of the meeting room in whcih discussions with players are held, so that KIA can hear. Good use IMO.

hahaha!

[Foxes_Trust]

Is it still the american pension fund?

Do we own any of it?

How much do we still owe?

Do we pay rent or are we mortgaged to them?

Thanks

Hackney

- Still Teachers own the ground and have a representative on the board. although being owned by one person, the board is more of a sounding board for Milan.

- With the original deal the debt grows for every year we are outside of the Premiership, our understanding is that will not have changed, however if we managed to get to the Premiership and stay there, Milan intended to buy the ground much quicker than the original terms (which would have taken 10 years, if a decade of Premiership existance was acheved).

- the variable terms are somewhat different to either a rental agreement or mortgage

[Sir Fynwy]

Milan could buy the ground for a much reduced figure as Teachers have no longterm interest in the stadium or site and they know that it's only real value is to the football club (you only have to look at the Filbert street site to see that land in the area is not exactly highly valued). Milan obviously sees no need to buy the ground, he probably has greater needs for the cash he's got anyway.

[davieG]

Milan could buy the ground for a much reduced figure as Teachers have no longterm interest in the stadium or site and they know that it's only real value is to the football club (you only have to look at the Filbert street site to see that land in the area is not exactly highly valued). Milan obviously sees no need to buy the ground, he probably has greater needs for the cash he's got anyway.

I reckon the only reason he'd buy it is if it added value to the LCFC package and increased his profit margin when he eventually sells the club.

[Sir Fynwy]

I reckon the only reason he'd buy it is if it added value to the LCFC package and increased his profit margin when he eventually sells the club.

That's exactly why he won't buy it, it won't add enough value to earn him extra $'s when he sells Premiership LCFC and what's going out now is manageable. The Stadium is a depreciating asset to whoever owns it and Teachers may as well take the hit.

[davieG]

That's exactly why he won't buy it, it won't add enough value to earn him extra s when he sells Premiership LCFC and what's going out now is manageable. The Stadium is a depreciating asset to whoever owns it and Teachers may as well take the hit.

I wasn't thinking Premier LCFC as I'm not confident we'll achieve that under Mandaric.

I just think the debt of the stadium will put off potential buyers. I believe Mandaric is cunning enough to get it for a knock down price to enable a more lucrative sale of Championship LCFC.

[consty]

Is it still the american pension fund?

Do we own any of it?

How much do we still owe?

Do we pay rent or are we mortgaged to them?

Thanks

Hackney

I can answer some of this. I met Tim Davies before he was asked to leave by MM about 3 years or so ago.

He told me the 'rental' on the ground was £750,000 per year in the Championship, more in the premiership. I can't remember the rental for the latter totally accurately but I do remember that it was considerably more - maybe £1.1m. He also told me how much it would cost to buy back the ground but I honestly can't remember the figure. It seemed clear to me at the time that this 'rental' was money wasted and that if the club were serious about getting into the premier league - certainly any rich investor - then they should pay off the debt in one go to own the club and end the mortgage, particularly as £1.1m is a very steep figure to pay.

To be honest, I thought the terms of MM's takeover were that he had to buy the ground back. Perhaps he's wormed his way out of it. Clearly as the owner he remains liable for the debt/rental but that is not the same as actually paying it off in one fell swoop which I thought he was supposed to do.

I would have thought if Tim gave me this information he would have also done so to the foxes trust. They should know the figures I know above, and all the rest.

[Sir Fynwy]

I can answer some of this. I met Tim Davies before he was asked to leave by MM about 3 years or so ago.

He told me the 'rental' on the ground was £750,000 per year in the Championship, more in the premiership. I can't remember the rental for the latter totally accurately but I do remember that it was considerably more - maybe £1.1m. He also told me how much it would cost to buy back the ground but I honestly can't remember the figure. It seemed clear to me at the time that this 'rental' was money wasted and that if the club were serious about getting into the premier league - certainly any rich investor - then they should pay off the debt in one go to own the club and end the mortgage, particularly as £1.1m is a very steep figure to pay.

To be honest, I thought the terms of MM's takeover were that he had to buy the ground back. Perhaps he's wormed his way out of it. Clearly as the owner he remains liable for the debt/rental but that is not the same as actually paying it off in one fell swoop which I thought he was supposed to do.

I would have thought if Tim gave me this information he would have also done so to the foxes trust. They should know the figures I know above, and all the rest.

MM has first refusal on the ground, there is no contract in place stating that he has to buy it at any time, the ground is only worth what people are willing to pay for it and if Teachers want more than anyone is willing to pay they will remain as landlords for the forseeable future.

Milan probably needs any free cash he has at the moment and would only buy the ground by taking a loan out which would become a liability for the club, loan terms are very poor at the moment so nothing is likely to happen.

[Foxes_Trust]

I can answer some of this. I met Tim Davies before he was asked to leave by MM about 3 years or so ago.

He told me the 'rental' on the ground was £750,000 per year in the Championship, more in the premiership. I can't remember the rental for the latter totally accurately but I do remember that it was considerably more - maybe £1.1m. He also told me how much it would cost to buy back the ground but I honestly can't remember the figure. It seemed clear to me at the time that this 'rental' was money wasted and that if the club were serious about getting into the premier league - certainly any rich investor - then they should pay off the debt in one go to own the club and end the mortgage, particularly as £1.1m is a very steep figure to pay.

To be honest, I thought the terms of MM's takeover were that he had to buy the ground back. Perhaps he's wormed his way out of it. Clearly as the owner he remains liable for the debt/rental but that is not the same as actually paying it off in one fell swoop which I thought he was supposed to do.

I would have thought if Tim gave me this information he would have also done so to the foxes trust. They should know the figures I know above, and all the rest.

All much higher actually. It was £1.1 million in the Championship (with the debt growing by circa £100k per annum), as interest out weighed debt. Then rising to over £3 million per year when in the Championship, which is why the ground would be easily paid off within a decade if we could stay in the Premiership. Not sure if the terms also allowed for a lesser payment in League One (as we didn't discuss this) and the information is not readily available under MM ownership.

MM could have re-negotiated terms, but when previously asked there was no great advantage to and also Teachers were very inflexible when ground sharing was being looked at, unless the economic climate had caused a re-think by all parties.

The terms of the MM deal from day one never did include buying the ground, even if his local media hack (and now current employee) was happy to peddle the £25m figure, when all it really meant was that he would take over the financial arrangement with Teachers, hence mis-leading many to think what you said above

[Craig]

All much higher actually. It was £1.1 million in the Championship (with the debt growing by circa £100k per annum), as interest out weighed debt. Then rising to over £3 million per year when in the Championship, which is why the ground would be easily paid off within a decade if we could stay in the Premiership. Not sure if the terms also allowed for a lesser payment in League One (as we didn't discuss this) and the information is not readily available under MM ownership.

MM could have re-negotiated terms, but when previously asked there was no great advantage to and also Teachers were very inflexible when ground sharing was being looked at, unless the economic climate had caused a re-think by all parties

Foxestrust, take a leap to this thread

[Jon the Hat]

Some rough figures suggest the value of the stadium is only around £10m to Teachers if we stay in the Championship, but rises to circa £27M if we get promoted and stay there (using NPV).

You would think then that if we look like promotion it is in their interests to hold out for at least £20m, which frankly it would not be worth us paying. Better off paying the higher price once we make it.