Gary McKinnon

[Katy]

I'm not in favour of him being sent to the US to face trial but the guy needs treatment.

Am I right in saying that the guy is a savant and not autistic?

He has Asperger's syndrome which is a form of autism.

[lildave3]

Alan Johnson!

[BoneDog]

Don't recall the U.S government falling over themselves to extradite suspected IRA terrorists to the U.K

Strikes me that within this so called special relationship it's the U.K that's on all fours waiting to take it up the a**e

Yes that's exactly how it is.

Under this treaty or whatever it is the UK are not allowed to bring people here from the US, but the US can extradite UK citizens without any evidence. This law will be used to extradite a number of political activists over the next few years I reckon, on false charges.

Everytime one of these kind of new laws is passed it makes it easier for the 'leaders' to silence opposition.

[breadandcheese]

What we have to remember though is that his condition can make him do things that, to him, may be normal but to people without the condition is unacceptable.

But that leads to a very interesting question. At what point you do draw the limit?

Although it's virtual damage that he caused, it can still cost large amounts of money to fix and can be far more damaging than an act of a crime such as arson. Yet, if he committed arson, would his autism be an adequate defence in a court of law here in the UK. I'm sure Lisa will be able to answer, but I imagine that a UK court would partially recognise his autism, but the seriousness of the crime would outweigh his condition.

[BoneDog]

But that leads to a very interesting question. At what point you do draw the limit?

Although it's virtual damage that he caused, it can still cost large amounts of money to fix and can be far more damaging than an act of a crime such as arson. Yet, if he committed arson, would his autism be an adequate defence in a court of law here in the UK. I'm sure Lisa will be able to answer, but I imagine that a UK court would partially recognise his autism, but the seriousness of the crime would outweigh his condition.

He didn't cause any 'vitrual damage' though. Those charges were added later on when they decided he was to be taken to the USA. He didn't have time to do anything that involved uploading/downloading cos he was on an old 56k dial-up modem. It would of took him long enough just to navigate through pages and read stuff. He also says that he wanted to stay annonymous and not do anything that would draw attention to himself. And for saying how long he was able to keep doing his snooping I would believe him when he says he only looked around. He says he used commercially available software that searched for blank passwords. If they never had any blank passwords at the Pentagon or NASA he never would of seen anything at all. Blank passwords at the Pentagon! Credit to Langley Air Force Base cos he says that he couldn't access them as they had proper security. At least some people were doing their jobs correctly.

I would definatley trust his words more than those of the known liars we see saying these accusations at the State Department or whatever they are.

[BoneDog]

But that leads to a very interesting question. At what point you do draw the limit?

Although it's virtual damage that he caused, it can still cost large amounts of money to fix and can be far more damaging than an act of a crime such as arson. Yet, if he committed arson, would his autism be an adequate defence in a court of law here in the UK. I'm sure Lisa will be able to answer, but I imagine that a UK court would partially recognise his autism, but the seriousness of the crime would outweigh his condition.

They say that each system he went on had exactly £5000 worth of damage. This is exactly the amount needed to make it an extraditable offence which seems strange to me.

Say if he had caused £300,000 worth of damage, would that crime be enough to take him to America? I would say a prison sentence in the UK would be sufficient. I'm sure many people in the UK have committed fraud or other financial crimes in the US for values over £300,000 and if caught have not been extradited and have served their sentence here

I'm sure this new law that allows the US to take UK citizens (without any evidence being neccessary) will only be applied to political opponents of the US. I think it's bang out of order And what kind of a law would say that they can take our citizens with no shred of evidence, but we can't bring US citizens here?!

[Webbo]

I'm sure this new law that allows the US to take UK citizens (without any evidence being neccessary) will only be applied to political opponents of the US. I think it's bang out of order And what kind of a law would say that they can take our citizens with no shred of evidence, but we can't bring US citizens here?!

Let's not pretend that there's no evidence. He's never tried to deny it. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

[BoneDog]

Let's not pretend that there's no evidence. He's never tried to deny it. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

I'm not saying there is no evidence in this case. He has committed an offence (not in my book though).

It's this new law I was referring to that allows the US to extradite our citizens without any evidence. Some times they will fabricate evidence (as they have in this case to make it more serious) but by this new law they don't have to have any evidence of anything. No human should ever support a law like that one, it's plain wrong and no democratic society should tolerate that at all.

This lad has committed a small offence for snooping but it's not like he's done something serious (load os people do this every day and if we want to we are allowed to buy the software to do it easily). You can get as little as 3 or 4 years for killing someone yet this lad is getting sent abroad to maybe recieve 60-80 years for looking at a few pictures and reading a few articles that should be in the public domain anyway.

He's a hero in my opinion for trying to force the government to talk about free energy and other things. Like he says, 'thousands of old people die every year just because of basically freezing to death'. He knows that there is no need for this and he has been speaking out about it. And it's got him in a whole heap of trouble.

[Webbo]

I'm not saying there is no evidence in this case. He has committed an offence (not in my book though).

It's this new law I was referring to that allows the US to extradite our citizens without any evidence. Some times they will fabricate evidence (as they have in this case to make it more serious) but by this new law they don't have to have any evidence of anything. No human should ever support a law like that one, it's plain wrong and no democratic society should tolerate that at all.

What you're saying is true, but it's our govt's fault for signing the treaty before the US govt ratified their end of the deal. It's is totally irrevellant in this case though.

This lad has committed a small offence for snooping but it's not like he's done something serious (load os people do this every day and if we want to we are allowed to buy the software to do it easily). You can get as little as 3 or 4 years for killing someone yet this lad is getting sent abroad to maybe recieve 60-80 years for looking at a few pictures and reading a few articles that should be in the public domain anyway.

It's not a small offence breaking any country's national security, that's why it's illegal. Just because he found it easy means nothing. You're not allowed to rob a bank just because they've forgotten to lock the door.

He's a hero in my opinion for trying to force the government to talk about free energy and other things. Like he says, 'thousands of old people die every year just because of basically freezing to death'. He knows that there is no need for this and he has been speaking out about it. And it's got him in a whole heap of trouble.

If the US had access to free energy why does it allow the arabs and Russians to hold us to ransom by threatening to deny us their oil and gas?

[Guest Mee-9]

It's silly how the Yanks treat you guilty untill proven innocent

[Webbo]

It's silly how the Yanks treat you guilty untill proven innocent

If he does get extradited he'll still get a trial. What else can America do?

[BoneDog]

If the US had access to free energy why does it allow the arabs and Russians to hold us to ransom by threatening to deny us their oil and gas?

The US administration is not held to ransom, they don't want anyone to know about this free energy and those who control the US make money from oil however much it is sold for. Most people in the administration want the oil price to go up anyway cos they have connections in the big oil giants. The only people oil prices have a negative effect on are the average citizen, not those running the show. The price of oil is exactly how the leaders want it, no matter what they tell us on the news.

The main reason they want this subject squashed is because the oil industry is worth too much to a few powerful people. Nearly as much as the legal/illegal drugs industry is worth to them.

A fair few scientists who have talked about much cheaper non-polluting ways of fuelling cars over the years have had their work on this subject silenced in mainstream media.

[BoneDog]

If he does get extradited he'll still get a trial. What else can America do?

Don't you think it would be sufficient for him to just go through our courts and be punished by them?

He might not get a fair trial in America cos under this new law they can have military trials where the defendant doesn't even get to speak or present his own evidence. And no-one can watch or report the trial. They aren't proper or fair trials. Not the stuff of a fair world.

They're just Nazis who are slowly taking away every right that us and our kids could ever hope for. The mad folk out there who are all for getting rid of human rights will be happy soon enough cos there wont be any rights of a citizen left. One day we will get hanged for even mentioning politics never mind critisizing a 'leader' or a policy

[Zingari]

Don't you think it would be sufficient for him to just go through our courts and be punished by them?

He might not get a fair trial in America cos under this new law they can have military trials where the defendant doesn't even get to speak or present his own evidence. And no-one can watch or report the trial. They aren't proper or fair trials. Not the stuff of a fair world.

They're just Nazis who are slowly taking away every right that us and our kids could ever hope for. The mad folk out there who are all for getting rid of human rights will be happy soon enough cos there wont be any rights of a citizen left. One day we will get hanged for even mentioning politics never mind critisizing a 'leader' or a policy

i believe there are many in the US that would agree with you , that the Homeland security and Patriot acts are of great concern

[Zingari]

Don't you think it would be sufficient for him to just go through our courts and be punished by them?

He might not get a fair trial in America cos under this new law they can have military trials where the defendant doesn't even get to speak or present his own evidence. And no-one can watch or report the trial. They aren't proper or fair trials. Not the stuff of a fair world.

They're just Nazis who are slowly taking away every right that us and our kids could ever hope for. The mad folk out there who are all for getting rid of human rights will be happy soon enough cos there wont be any rights of a citizen left. One day we will get hanged for even mentioning politics never mind critisizing a 'leader' or a policy

i believe there are many in the US that would agree with you , that the Homeland security and Patriot acts are of great concern

[Webbo]

The US administration is not held to ransom, they don't want anyone to know about this free energy and those who control the US make money from oil however much it is sold for. Most people in the administration want the oil price to go up anyway cos they have connections in the big oil giants. The only people oil prices have a negative effect on are the average citizen, not those running the show. The price of oil is exactly how the leaders want it, no matter what they tell us on the news.

The main reason they want this subject squashed is because the oil industry is worth too much to a few powerful people. Nearly as much as the legal/illegal drugs industry is worth to them.

A fair few scientists who have talked about much cheaper non-polluting ways of fuelling cars over the years have had their work on this subject silenced in mainstream media.

There are more industries in America than oil. Don't you think that if they had the secret of free energy it would give their manufactoring industries a massive advantage?

Don't you think it would be sufficient for him to just go through our courts and be punished by them?

I'm no legal expert so I don't know if you can be tried in this country for a crime committed abroad or even if this counts as a crime abroad as he was in this country whilst he committed this crime, Perhaps Lisa knows.

[Darkon84]

Great piece in the Guardian today. A letter from his mother, Janis Sharp, in pretty much a final plea to Theresa May and David Cameron.

How this continues to drag on for 10 years now, is beyond me and shows how we are just the lap dogs to great Us of A

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/07/open-letter-gary-mckinnon