ozleicester Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 Prejudice against the poor? Have a word child - I've been working as a teacher in the state system for fifteen years, volunteering with Shelter for six and as a volunteer trainer for Mind for off and on five years. I spent two years giving up my free time for the homeless street children of Cali, Colombia and then a further three giving free evening classes to homeless orphans in Caracas. Exactly what do you do to aid the suffering of the poor aside from gobbing off on an internet forum's bulletin board?Some of us in this thread simply have a pragmatic approach based on direct experience and knowledge: You and others are confusing access to IT with education. Plonking a child in front of a laptop does not mean they will learn - erudition is not achieved through osmosis. There is not one single piece of research in existence linking home access to ICT to an improvement in basic literacy and numeracy skills...and these are the very skills needing addressing in the home environment (where there exists no culture of learning). In fifteen years of teaching I have yet to come across a program which will effectively diagnose shortcomings in a child's understanding and address this with stepped support. So, pardon me if I mock anyone who considers that a child with limited coding skills is somehow going to benefit from the internet mystically infusing them with new-found understanding. Children with limited skills can not read the bulk of websites - font sizes are too small, there is too much information and they can not access the text. This isn't an opinion, this is fact. The proposal doesn't include software, it is all centred around the allowing them to access an internet that is already available to them in other forms...one which the bulk of them spurn. We have a 20% rate of families without access to ICT at home. Alongside council provision, we open up the lab to parents and kids for before, during and afterschool clubs. How many of the 20% do you think attend? The argument should centre more on what we could do for them if we didn't spend our time filling in pointless forms and being driven by targets and league tables - that is what acts as a detriment to their learning. Take a chill pill you self obsessed, self important prat. I am so very impressed by your giving over the years. take a pat on the back, ok.. feel better now? What i do to assist the underprivileged and suffering is none of your business, and, unlike some others... not something i will use the the internet to self promote just to increase my sense of self worth. Do not think to tell me what i think or that i am confused. Your so called pragmatism reads simply as a typical teachers attitude of "teacher knows best, and of course feeds your control issues. At no stage did i suggest that the provision of computers would be a simple road to success, merely that it offers at least an opportunity. Especially considering as you suggest, your way has failed for the past 15 years... perhaps time to rethink and look at alternatives... oh no wait.. you know best dont you. the fact that you open your doors and they dont come means.. what you are doing... isnt working, Maybe they have other kids to look after? maybe they are too scared to approach places of such importance? Maybe their (unrecognised) disability prevents them. Maybe their intellect prevents them Maybe they just dont give a fu*K. Maybe their treatment by the self important wankers in positions of pseudo power prevents them. these and a million other reasons prevent them from coming, but.... why, is not the issue, the issue is.. how can we improve things for them and especially their kids??? Dont take it personally.. just look to improve things. Why dont YOU do something about all the forms and league tables... you expect these people to change their lives and enviroments..... you change yours. edit, lyrics here
Guest Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 Take a chill pill you self obsessed, self important prat.Dont take it personally.. just look to improve things. Er, so what's with the abusive opening?
ozleicester Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 Er, so what's with the abusive opening? The opening is simply a reaction to this... Prejudice against the poor? Have a word child - I've been working as a teacher in the state system for fifteen years, volunteering with Shelter for six and as a volunteer trainer for Mind for off and on five years. I spent two years giving up my free time for the homeless street children of Cali, Colombia and then a further three giving free evening classes to homeless orphans in Caracas. Exactly what do you do to aid the suffering of the poor aside from gobbing off on an internet forum's bulletin board?
Bryn Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 The crux of the issue for me is that every single child in this country that wants to learn already has all the resources they need to do so, hence this being a waste of money. It's attitudes that need to be changed.
Daggers Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 No, I can't provide any evidence or research to corroborate my ridiculous opinions and so I'm going to sound off like a petulant little willy puller, use some more glib phrases and end with a trite quote or a Youtube clip to cover up for my lack of substance. I'm sorry but my wholesale lack of life experience impairs me from being able to offer coherent arguments and I suffer from self-esteem issues. Obviously.
Guest Bilo Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 Some of us in this thread simply have a pragmatic approach based on direct experience and knowledge: You and others are confusing access to IT with education. Plonking a child in front of a laptop does not mean they will learn - erudition is not achieved through osmosis. There is not one single piece of research in existence linking home access to ICT to an improvement in basic literacy and numeracy skills...and these are the very skills needing addressing in the home environment (where there exists no culture of learning). No there isn't. There is some evidence to suggest the opposite though. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7262873.stm
ozleicester Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 QUOTE (ozleicester @ Jan 17 2010, 06:38 AM) * No, I can't provide any evidence or research to corroborate my ridiculous opinions and so I'm going to sound off like a petulant little willy puller, use some more glib phrases and end with a trite quote or a Youtube clip to cover up for my lack of substance. I'm sorry but my wholesale lack of life experience impairs me from being able to offer coherent arguments and I suffer from self-esteem issues. Obviously. Once again you leave the discusion, to make poor attempts at humour. (at least i assume this was meant to be funny?) This entire discussion comes down to the fact that some people will happily save their 3 pounds a week to buy the latest iphone jizzing in my mates pants app, than help out people who arent able to help themselves. Thats fine, you and your iphone are brilliant.
Daggers Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 This entire discussion comes down to the fact that some people will happily save their 3 pounds a week to buy the latest iphone jizzing in my mates pants app, than help out people who arent able to help themselves No it doesn't. What it comes down to is a debate by people with experience and fact at their fingers compared to the little posturing by those with no evidence, no experience, no substance. You don't seem to be able to contribute anything other than tiresome teenage emotive statements and ridiculous made-up figures.
lou Posted 17 January 2010 Author Posted 17 January 2010 This entire discussion comes down to the fact that some people will happily save their 3 pounds a week to buy the latest iphone jizzing in my mates pants app, than help out people who arent able to help themselves. No Id rather my HARD EARNED £3 went to something more worthwhile. Im not saving it anyway, its already gone to the Government, its just a matter of where its being spent. You really are very naive if you think the very people your standing up for dont all have the latest mobile phones, ipods, designer clothes, games consules etc etc. Trust me I live next door to a fine example of "low income families" both on the dole who have a damn sight more than we do (he owns an Arab horse ffs!) I had to get rid of my horse years ago as I cant afford to keep one. They have a car, very powerful stereo system (loud enough to make our house shake anyway!) kids who walk around (hang around street corners being a nuisance) better dressed than we do. So no do I feck want my wages going towards giving them a laptop which they WILL NOT USE FOR EDUCATION in a million years!
Guest Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 The opening is simply a reaction to this...Prejudice against the poor? Have a word child - I've been working as a teacher in the state system for fifteen years, volunteering with Shelter for six and as a volunteer trainer for Mind for off and on five years. I spent two years giving up my free time for the homeless street children of Cali, Colombia and then a further three giving free evening classes to homeless orphans in Caracas. Exactly what do you do to aid the suffering of the poor aside from gobbing off on an internet forum's bulletin board? Your reaction is disproportionate. Insulting and derisory, maybe, but not abusive.
ozleicester Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 Your reaction is disproportionate. Insulting and derisory, maybe, but not abusive. I accept that you believe this to be the case, i do not.
ozleicester Posted 17 January 2010 Posted 17 January 2010 No it doesn't. What it comes down to is a debate by people with experience and fact at their fingers compared to the little posturing by those with no evidence, no experience, no substance. You don't seem to be able to contribute anything other than tiresome teenage emotive statements and ridiculous made-up figures. In your opinion these are teenage emotive statements, in my opinion, they are statements and beliefs of a person fighting for the rights of all. Unfortunatley all too often, the poor and the people with limited intellect or limited ability to exsist in"our" world are simply cast aside because they dont fit the preconceived mould of how they "should" live. Yes, some are wasting tax payers money, some dont give a shit, and some may never improve their life. BUT, some will, if they are given a chance. I dont know what makes you think you have more experience and facts than me, or.. more to the point, that having that experience or fact makes your opinion more valuable, as you said, youve spent 15 years failing at dealing with this problem. Maybe continuing to do the same thing, will bring the same result?
Daggers Posted 18 January 2010 Posted 18 January 2010 In your opinion these are teenage emotive statements, in my opinion, they are statements and beliefs of a person fighting for the rights of all. Give my love to Ken, Shirley, Tucker and Speed.
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