davieG Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 Britain's "first past the post" voting system could be scrapped if Labour wins the general election, under plans which have been outlined by Gordon Brown. Full story @ the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8492622.stm Genuine or a means of stealing LibDem and other disillusioned voters?
Shrenchel Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 The country is crying out for proportional representation and he gives is this preferential voting shit. He can take his smoke screen and fvck off.
Bellend Sebastian Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 Sounds like a Stalinist plot to me. Well, apart from the complete absence of any Stalinist characteristics anyway, but that doesn't usally stop people making that comparison
acooling08 Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 Well Labour aren't staying on anyway so pointless proposal.
Jon the Hat Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 The country is crying out for proportional representation and he gives is this preferential voting shit. He can take his smoke screen and fvck off. Is it? Suggest you see how the citizens of New Zealand like it.
Sir Fynwy Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 Is it? Suggest you see how the citizens of New Zealand like it. My brother actually works for the NZ electoral commision in Wellington as an analyst, election time is madness there.
Shrenchel Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 NZ is not really a great example. Webster's is one of the worst allocation systems imo and they've implemented it pretty badly. I don't know if they're satisfied with it or not but they voted to change FPP to PR by almost 90% in a referendum so I doubt they're itching to switch back even if it needs some tweaking. Plenty of examples of PR ES that results in governance that does a leaky shit all our archaic bollocks.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 I personally think that Party Politics ruins democracy as it takes away individuals ability to speak freely in their party. It makes issues far to black (Labour) white (Conservaties) or grey (Lib Dems). Yes there are people who rebel in the party, but thats on the odd occasion and it spoils there stand as they tend to get kicked to the curb by the leader at that time, meaning any further input is lost. I must admit, this AV voting system doesn't seem to be a great answer, but I couldn't explain how Proportional Representation (I take it the size of a county counts more?) or the first past the post system (I take it the first to hit so many votes wins?) works (I guess the names give an indication). Anyone care to enlighten me on both of these?
davieG Posted 2 February 2010 Author Posted 2 February 2010 I personally think that Party Politics ruins democracy as it takes away individuals ability to speak freely in their party. It makes issues far to black (Labour) white (Conservaties) or grey (Lib Dems). Yes there are people who rebel in the party, but thats on the odd occasion and it spoils there stand as they tend to get kicked to the curb by the leader at that time, meaning any further input is lost. I must admit, this AV voting system doesn't seem to be a great answer, but I couldn't explain how Proportional Representation (I take it the size of a county counts more?) or the first past the post system (I take it the first to hit so many votes wins?) works (I guess the names give an indication). Anyone care to enlighten me on both of these? First past the post is what we currently have, the individual with the most votes in each constituency is elected as the MP and effectively the party with the most MPs is the party that's asked to form a government, this can be questionably if there isn't an out right winner or a party with a majority over all the other parties. PR is a lot more complicated and there are numerous variations it might be worth searching the web - here's a starter for you. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/propo...resentation.htm PS I agree about Party Politics it stinks.
Fosse Boy Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 Ah, the Alternative Vote System. Takes me back to A Level Politics... Technically means at least the winning candidate has won by a majority I guess (which makes it slightly better than FPTP), but offers no real change if it's still the same geographical constituencies being represented. New Labour stand to lose too much by offering PR to the electorate. The fact that much of the Labour heartlands are split into smaller constiuencies mean that they'll never get rid of geographically based elections. The only major party who would stand to gain from PR are the Lib Dems, as they don't really have any "heartlands" to speak of. It's a weak compromise and only ****** will see this lame duck as an opportunity for real electoral reform. EDIT: Fuck it, it should all be PR. Power to the people...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 First past the post is what we currently have, the individual with the most votes in each constituency is elected as the MP and effectively the party with the most MPs is the party that's asked to form a government, this can be questionably if there isn't an out right winner or a party with a majority over all the other parties.PR is a lot more complicated and there are numerous variations it might be worth searching the web - here's a starter for you. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/propo...resentation.htm PS I agree about Party Politics it stinks. So if i understand what i've read about Proportional Representation, First past the post and the SV proposal, SV is really a middle ground between both - i.e. you vote by picking your favourite, then second and so on (bit like that stupid vote thing on the leicester players), but that the votes would still count on a first past the post system using this way - so the is no Proortional Representation. Hmmmm - confusing? I don't know if I'd be satisfied if the bloke I voted as my second choice got in? I doubt I'd know more than 2 of my local candidates? Isn't most voting done on the pictures of the people, which makes the whole system flawed anyway?
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 God there are a lot of different methods of using Proportional Representation aren't there? I don't think I like it down to it's complexity - I at least understand currently I vote for one, one only, and that my vote counts towards that person. Think I would more than likely fook up the ballot paper if I had to rank the candidates? I like one of the systems I read about - somewhere in germany used a three class system, which seperated groups of votes based on the amount of tax you paid. That would make things interesting!
davieG Posted 2 February 2010 Author Posted 2 February 2010 God there are a lot of different methods of using Proportional Representation aren't there? I don't think I like it down to it's complexity - I at least understand currently I vote for one, one only, and that my vote counts towards that person. Think I would more than likely fook up the ballot paper if I had to rank the candidates?I like one of the systems I read about - somewhere in germany used a three class system, which seperated groups of votes based on the amount of tax you paid. That would make things interesting! If you don't pay taxes you shouldn't be allowed to vote in General Elections If you don't pay Council Tax you shouldn't be allowed to vote in local elections Well it's a thought!
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 If you don't pay taxes you shouldn't be allowed to vote in General ElectionsIf you don't pay Council Tax you shouldn't be allowed to vote in local elections Well it's a thought! To be honest, this demographic are highly likely not to vote anyway aren't they? Right, how do I stand for election. If whats his name can become mayor, I can surely get a seat in parilment?
ramboacdc Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 im still undecided who to vote for. i sure as hell aint voting conservative and i dont want them in so im debating labour just to keep them out and see what they can do, but i prefer the lib dems but since they never win it seems like a wasted vote.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 2 February 2010 Posted 2 February 2010 im still undecided who to vote for. i sure as hell aint voting conservative and i dont want them in so im debating labour just to keep them out and see what they can do, but i prefer the lib dems but since they never win it seems like a wasted vote. I think that is a position a lot are in, and the key is how the majority of these people will vote. I for one don't think the election is a foregone conclusion, because the cons are making tits of themselves again with silly posters and the like, and dispite all thats happened under Gordon Brown, I expect some will feel sorry for him. I also think the backing of the sun for the conservatives could be a bad thing - people don't like being told how to vote, so if they push too hard they could suffer a back lash (and I would enjoy that).
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.