Racist chants

[acooling08]

Hardly accusing is it? He was accused of it but not by us. We are just acknowledging that he was accused of it.

As for the Sousa one, you are just being too touchy. I don't see anyone taking offence to that or taking it seriously in the slightest.

I'm not really offended by them, I'm just saying that I am as equally not offended by the paki chants. I felt more embarrassed hearing sousa shagged your son than town full of pakis though. I don't know why some people are making a big deal out of some chants and ignoring others.

[Jimbo]

No I find it completely different. I'm Italian, if my own fans made a chant about me eating pasta I wouldn't take offence.

It's not a criticism that Korean's eat dogs, it's just a fact.

The only reason the chant might be considered racist is because he is in fact Japanese. The fans who chant this are generalising that part of Asia. However, they are not doing so on purpose.

I don't see it as the same difference at all. Intent makes a difference, the Yuki chant is in support of him, the Millwall chants are malicious. There is a massive difference there.

that's kind of my point. And lcfcadam has further proved my point. Racsim is racism. And the more people excuse this kind of thing the less likely it is that it will disappear.

Like I said I accept the fact that it may be ignorant rather than malicious but it's still a form of racsim. The arguement is there, of course if it's meant to hurt someone or anger someone then it's worse than just 'banter' but why do we have to make these levels of which is acceptable and which isn't?

I can't say it enough, racism is racism on any level and if it's to be kicked out of football then it has to be unacceptable on all levels.

[Leicester_Loyal]

If anyone gets hurt by these chants from these idiots then you shouldn't be at the football in the first place.

[Kitchandro]

I'm not really offended by them, I'm just saying that I am as equally not offended by the paki chants. I felt more embarrassed hearing sousa shagged your son than town full of pakis though. I don't know why some people are making a big deal out of some chants and ignoring others.

Well I'm not offended by any of them either, because I'm neither Asian or Welsh.

But the point is the paki chant is maliciously and purposefully racist and hateful.

The Sousa one is a joke, and not a racist one. I mean most football chants are vulgar and quite a lot are a piss take of the opposition or their fans.

The subject we are discussing though is racism, and that is what is out of order.

[Kitchandro]

that's kind of my point. And lcfcadam has further proved my point. Racsim is racism. And the more people excuse this kind of thing the less likely it is that it will disappear.

Like I said I accept the fact that it may be ignorant rather than malicious but it's still a form of racsim. The arguement is there, of course if it's meant to hurt someone or anger someone then it's worse than just 'banter' but why do we have to make these levels of which is acceptable and which isn't?

I can't say it enough, racism is racism on any level and if it's to be kicked out of football then it has to be unacceptable on all levels.

Maybe technically it is, but it's nothing like actual racism, which is what we are talking about.

Whilst I think the Yuki dog chant is crap and completely wrong, it's not offensive. The point of this thread is that the malicious intent of the Millwall chants offends those of an Asian descent.

I think you are being a little too PC, some of our fans may be incredibly thick, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are intolerant of other races.

[FoxyJulez]

I am Vietnamese and am fully proud and passionate Leicester City Fan.

i am the only vietnamese leicester fan, im sure of it and when i hear the yuki abe song i laugh but then i think to myself

if your gunna chant a racist song at least get it right. yuki is japanese not korean.

why does everyone presume everyone in asia eat dogs?

anyway i suppose it is not as racist as the millwall chanting 'paki' and so on.

if any other vietnamese leicester fans on here, please say haha. i sit in k block and have NEVER seen a south east asian before at the walkers apart from MR YUKIB ABE haha

[walkerlcfc91]

I am Vietnamese and am fully proud and passionate Leicester City Fan.

i am the only vietnamese leicester fan, im sure of it and when i hear the yuki abe song i laugh but then i think to myself

if your gunna chant a racist song at least get it right. yuki is japanese not korean.

why does everyone presume everyone in asia eat dogs?

anyway i suppose it is not as racist as the millwall chanting 'paki' and so on.

if any other vietnamese leicester fans on here, please say haha. i sit in k block and have NEVER seen a south east asian before at the walkers apart from MR YUKIB ABE haha

The diference is that the Yuki chant isn't intentionally racist, whether the chant is right or wrong there is no malice in it. What Millwall were chanting was clearly suggesting being a 'paki' makes them lesser people/ inferior, that's the point!

[Jimbo]

Maybe technically it is, but it's nothing like actual racism, which is what we are talking about.

Whilst I think the Yuki dog chant is crap and completely wrong, it's not offensive. The point of this thread is that the malicious intent of the Millwall chants offends those of an Asian descent.

I think you are being a little too PC, some of our fans may be incredibly thick, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are intolerant of other races.

I am being too PC, I admit it, but you're still missing the point. What's actual racsim? Is there a form of pretend racsim then? In this day and age, with everthing we have at our disposal, information literally at our finger tips ignorance is no better than intent.

Assuming everyone from the far east is basically the same is being completely ignorant. How do we know that Yuki wouldn't be offended by certain people assuming that he basically Korean because he looks a little bit like a Korean man?

All I'm saying is that it cannot be excused on one level and then expected to have no part to play on another.

[Kitchandro]

I am being too PC, I admit it, but you're still missing the point. What's actual racsim? Is there a form of pretend racsim then? In this day and age, with everthing we have at our disposal, information literally at our finger tips ignorance is no better than intent.

Assuming everyone from the far east is basically the same is being completely ignorant. How do we know that Yuki wouldn't be offended by certain people assuming that he basically Korean because he looks a little bit like a Korean man?

All I'm saying is that it cannot be excused on one level and then expected to have no part to play on another.

Ignorance is hardly a hanging offence though is it?

I mean if you were to go to another country which has a different culture, and behaved as you normally do, only to be told you were offending their culture, do you think you would deserve a punishment? Or do you think it would be more fair to let you off considering you didn't know what you were doing was wrong/offensive?

It's like saying a baby deserves a smack because it pokes you in the eye. They don't know any better.

If it's an accident, of course it should be excused, because the Leicester fans who sing that song don't intend to cause offence or realise that they might be doing so. If they were informed it was inaccurate and therefore potentially offensive I doubt they would continue to sing it.

[Jimbo]

The diference is that the Yuki chant isn't intentionally racist, whether the chant is right or wrong there is no malice in it. What Millwall were chanting was clearly suggesting being a 'paki' makes them lesser people/ inferior, that's the point!

I'm getting way to PC now and I'm sounding like I'm some sort of saint, I can assure you that this isn't the case, but that's not the point, at least it isn't the point I'm trying to make. Racism shouldn't have different levels of acceptance. If it's racist then it's racist whether or not it's meant to cause offence. I do accept that one form is worse than the other, but that shouldn't be the case. Like i keep saying you can't excuse it in one form and then expect it to be kicked out of the game altogether.

[Kitchandro]

I'm getting way to PC now and I'm sounding like I'm some sort of saint, I can assure you that this isn't the case, but that's not the point, at least it isn't the point I'm trying to make. Racism shouldn't have different levels of acceptance. If it's racist then it's racist whether or not it's meant to cause offence. I do accept that one form is worse than the other, but that shouldn't be the case. Like i keep saying you can't excuse it in one form and then expect it to be kicked out of the game altogether.

If you are going to be this picky about it then I'll have to change my answer - the Yuki dog chant isn't racist at all.

I think you need to be careful that you aren't accusing people of being racist, because that is quite a serious accusation.

[Haydos]

It's like saying a baby deserves a smack because it pokes you in the eye. They don't know any better.

If you're going to say that the it's fair to go down the 'ignorance is not an excuse' route which many would argue is completely just.

[Guest Mee-9]

"Yuki, he'll eat your fvcking dog" ?

it's not even culturally correct.

As a matter of fact, ask lcfc_weasel, or the other lads who were on the coach on the way back from Bristol City away.

[Kitchandro]

If you're going to say that the it's fair to go down the 'ignorance is not an excuse' route which many would argue is completely just.

But it is an excuse.

You're just being silly now

[Jimbo]

Ignorance is hardly a hanging offence though is it?

I mean if you were to go to another country which has a different culture, and behaved as you normally do, only to be told you were offending their culture, do you think you would deserve a punishment? Or do you think it would be more fair to let you off considering you didn't know what you were doing was wrong/offensive?

It's like saying a baby deserves a smack because it pokes you in the eye. They don't know any better.

If it's an accident, of course it should be excused, because the Leicester fans who sing that song don't intend to cause offence or realise that they might be doing so. If they were informed it was inaccurate and therefore potentially offensive I doubt they would continue to sing it.

well if we're going down this road then.....

If I go to another country with different cultures then I do my level best to abide by their ways. I wouldn't and I don't behave as I normally do if anything I do is deemed unacceptable. If I did anything to cause offence accidentally then of course I wouldn't deserve punishment, no one would. But comparing babies and grown men (a term used loosely for most of fans that chant that particular song) is wrong.

Do you really think that they are accidentally assuming that all eastern Asian cultures are the same? If there are people that do then it's a very small minority of what is already a small group.

As said several times by people on this topic, it gets sung because people find it funny. That is ignorance.

[Kitchandro]

well if we're going down this road then.....

If I go to another country with different cultures then I do my level best to abide by their ways. I wouldn't and I don't behave as I normally do if anything I do is deemed unacceptable. If I did anything to cause offence accidentally then of course I wouldn't deserve punishment, no one would. But comparing babies and grown men (a term used loosely for most of fans that chant that particular song) is wrong.

Do you really think that they are accidentally assuming that all eastern Asian cultures are the same? If there are people that do then it's a very small minority of what is already a small group.

As said several times by people on this topic, it gets sung because people find it funny. That is ignorance.

No, I think they either believe that Japanese people eat dogs (and in fact, you can't actually say they don't, unless you know every Japanese person) and not Koreans, or they believe that all countries in that part of Asia eat dogs.

Obviously you think that they know it's Koreans that eat dogs, and are generalising on purpose. I don't think that's the case at all.

And even if it was, it's still not a hateful chant, which makes all the difference.

The ignorance is not finding it funny, it's not knowing that Japanese people don't eat dogs.

If we are going to be pedantic about it, it's the hate that people find offensive, not racism.

[Haydos]

But it is an excuse.

You're just being silly now

I think this argument's a bit silly, but it's been done in the past and it'll be done again. I still think it's fair to generalise thick people who go along with chants when they don't understand them as morons, even if you're not gonna label them racists. Fair compromise?

[Kitchandro]

I think this argument's a bit silly, but it's been done in the past and it'll be done again. I still think it's fair to generalise thick people who go along with chants when they don't understand them as morons, even if you're not gonna label them racists. Fair compromise?

Yes I'd say that's fair.

I'll admit as much as anyone that I sit next to some real ******, but I just feel judging them as racist is unfair in this instance.

[Jimbo]

No, I think they either believe that Japanese people eat dogs (and in fact, you can't actually say they don't, unless you know every Japanese person) and not Koreans, or they believe that all countries in that part of Asia eat dogs.

Obviously you think that they know it's Koreans that eat dogs, and are generalising on purpose. I don't think that's the case at all.

And even if it was, it's still not a hateful chant, which makes all the difference.

The ignorance is not finding it funny, it's not knowing that Japanese people don't eat dogs.

If we are going to be pedantic about it, it's the hate that people find offensive, not racism.

I fully agree with you in the fact that the difference is the hate that's intended.

But to think that these people are not generalising on purpose is naive.

This conversation is on the verge of getting completely out of hand but I stand by my original point. Forget the intent or the hate, if racism is to be a thing of the past then there is no room for excusing it on any level.

[Haydos]

Yes I'd say that's fair.

I'll admit as much as anyone that I sit next to some real ******, but I just feel judging them as racist is unfair in this instance.

I think idiots annoy me more than racists tbh. I can disregard racists whereas idiots I seem to have to treat like real people.

[Kitchandro]

I fully agree with you in the fact that the difference is the hate that's intended.

But to think that these people are not generalising on purpose is naive.

This conversation is on the verge of getting completely out of hand but I stand by my original point. Forget the intent or the hate, if racism is to be a thing of the past then there is no room for excusing it on any level.

OK so if we are to assume that they are generalising on purpose (I don't agree they are) and that it can't be excuse what do you suggest we do with L block? Ban them all?

Serious question

[Kitchandro]

Ok my comment has been pulled why?

[Kitchandro]

I fully agree with you in the fact that the difference is the hate that's intended.

But to think that these people are not generalising on purpose is naive.

This conversation is on the verge of getting completely out of hand but I stand by my original point. Forget the intent or the hate, if racism is to be a thing of the past then there is no room for excusing it on any level.

So assuming that they are generalising on purpose (I don't agree they are) and that it isn't to be excused do we ban half of L block?

[zubi]

I'm glad there aren't any pro racists on this thread! or in the stadium, thats what I love about LCFC

My brother in town on saturday said the milwall fans were acting like the EDL when they were in leicester a few months ago Really appaling behaviour