Guest MattP Posted 23 August 2011 Posted 23 August 2011 Some drunk people acted like arseholes, the police failed to manage a crowd That pretty much sums it up for me and it exactly the story I have had told to me by relatives who were there. Police were totally useless, behaviour of Liverpool fans was again beyond disgraceful, just a matter of time before something like this happened. Might sounds sick but a lot of people almost felt it was Karma for what they had done in the past. The Munich banners they put up at Heysel were a disgrace.
ozleicester Posted 23 August 2011 Posted 23 August 2011 That pretty much sums it up for me and it exactly the story I have had told to me by relatives who were there. Police were totally useless, behaviour of Liverpool fans was again beyond disgraceful, just a matter of time before something like this happened. Might sounds sick but a lot of people almost felt it was Karma for what they had done in the past. The Munich banners they put up at Heysel were a disgrace. Seriously.. you might just want to think about innocent people dying...and edit your post
Guest MattP Posted 23 August 2011 Posted 23 August 2011 Seriously.. you might just want to think about innocent people dying...and edit your post The whole incident was tragic, I don't see what I have said thats so bad. I didnt say I saw it as karma, I'm saying I have heard a lot of people say it.
accessory Posted 23 August 2011 Posted 23 August 2011 That pretty much sums it up for me and it exactly the story I have had told to me by relatives who were there. Police were totally useless, behaviour of Liverpool fans was again beyond disgraceful, just a matter of time before something like this happened. Might sounds sick but a lot of people almost felt it was Karma for what they had done in the past. The Munich banners they put up at Heysel were a disgrace. Sounds very much like you believe the Sun's version of events... It's important to remember that many of those who died at Hillsborough were children who had NO involvement in Heysel, were NOT drunk and had NOT been fighting with police. Their families deserve to know the truth about what happened. It's a disgrace that it has been denied to them for over 20 years.
Guest MattP Posted 23 August 2011 Posted 23 August 2011 Sounds very much like you believe the Sun's version of events... It's important to remember that many of those who died at Hillsborough were children who had NO involvement in Heysel, were NOT drunk and had NOT been fighting with police. Their families deserve to know the truth about what happened. It's a disgrace that it has been denied to them for over 20 years. Some of the people I have spoke to who were there also give the account of similar things that the Sun said happened, I have absolutely no doubt whilst not all of what they said was true.........some of it was (He saw with his own eyes an ambulance being robbed). The timing of the article was appalling though. A close friend of mine was working for the BBC in Athens for the CL final and a lot of the fans there were doing exactly the same, groups of 15/20 ticketless fans jumping over the fences and security gates to get into the stadium, you can bet some of this these are the same ones signing this petition as well. Like has been said, this was a tragedy, a lot of people lost their lives who shouldnt, the blame lies with the police, the way society viewed football at the time and a minority of Liverpool fans. We have all seen the way Liverpool didnt mind goading Everton over the events of Heysel, this was on the kop end as well......
accessory Posted 23 August 2011 Posted 23 August 2011 That Steaua banner is bizarre. It escapes me why any Liverpool fan would want to parade that at Anfield during a game. If it was aimed at Everton fans, its point probably went straight over their heads.
Guest MattP Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 That Steaua banner is bizarre. It escapes me why any Liverpool fan would want to parade that at Anfield during a game. If it was aimed at Everton fans, its point probably went straight over their heads. Trust me 99% if not all of Everton fans know exactly what that banner represented, the 1985 championship winning side of Everton had just beaten Bayern Munich in the cup winners cup and were ready to take on the world, for Liverpool fans to enjoy and goad them into the fact they couldnt enter europe because they themselves murdered 42 Italians is sick. If if was Leeds, Millwall or anyone like that it would of been all over the papers. Scouse guilt only goes one way. They were happy to stand on the terrace at Heysel with "Munich 58" banners, they still throw around that stupid aeroplane at HT when they go to OT, they wanted justice for Michael Shields yet had no intention of giving over Graham Sankey over. The whole world is against them and nothing is their fault, can't remember who said it but it is a city that just enjoys wallowing in its own grief.
Guest MattP Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 Controversial.... Closed. Don't think our government can do anything about that. It's a great shame a lot of the Liverpool fans who murdered fellow football fans that night never stood trial for manslaughter though. I'm sure Italian fans feel the same....
accessory Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 Trust me 99% if not all of Everton fans know exactly what that banner represented, the 1985 championship winning side of Everton had just beaten Bayern Munich in the cup winners cup and were ready to take on the world, for Liverpool fans to enjoy and goad them into the fact they couldnt enter europe because they themselves murdered 42 Italians is sick. If if was Leeds, Millwall or anyone like that it would of been all over the papers. Scouse guilt only goes one way. They were happy to stand on the terrace at Heysel with "Munich 58" banners, they still throw around that stupid aeroplane at HT when they go to OT, they wanted justice for Michael Shields yet had no intention of giving over Graham Sankey over. The whole world is against them and nothing is their fault, can't remember who said it but it is a city that just enjoys wallowing in its own grief. Sorry but I'm not buying that explanation. There's no guarantee that even if Everton had been able to enter the 1986 European Cup, they would automatically have won it. While I'm well aware that Liverpool have a fair amount of scallies among their fanbase, and have done for decades, the fact remains that many of the fans killed at Hillsborough were CHILDREN, who had no links with hooliganism. Some of them even went to the game with their parents. The idea of "divine retribution" for Heysel is absurd and offensive. The families of the dead deserve justice and I hope, as do many other fans of ALL football clubs, this petition goes some way towards achieving that.
Guest MattP Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 Sorry but I'm not buying that explanation. There's no guarantee that even if Everton had been able to enter the 1986 European Cup, they would automatically have won it. While I'm well aware that Liverpool have a fair amount of scallies among their fanbase, and have done for decades, the fact remains that many of the fans killed at Hillsborough were CHILDREN, who had no links with hooliganism. Some of them even went to the game with their parents. The idea of "divine retribution" for Heysel is absurd and offensive. The families of the dead deserve justice and I hope, as do many other fans of ALL football clubs, this petition goes some way towards achieving that. What do you regard as "justice"? Everton would of gone close, they had a great side and signed Lineker in that summer, no doubt they would of been there or theerabouts. What do you mean you arent buying the explanantion? What do you think the explanation of the Liverpool fans waving a "Bucharest 86" banner is then?
Guest MattP Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 That second banner is despicable. It is, but if you were a Juventus fan you could probably understand it. When you have seen you own fans murdered by another teams supporters and then see them totally get away with it you might think Karma hits back one day. Thats not a personal view, just trying to put myself in the position of a Juventus fan who came back from a match without his Dad because of the behaviour of Liverpool supporters. That "I'm sorry" banner they wheeled out a few years back was sickening as well, I was glad when the 2,000 travelling Juve fans turned their backs on it.
ramboacdc Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 Closed. Don't think our government can do anything about that. It's a great shame a lot of the Liverpool fans who murdered fellow football fans that night never stood trial for manslaughter though. I'm sure Italian fans feel the same.... i got into a raging rant with my juve supporting manager once about this. how was that all liverpools fault there?! those ****ers need to learn some respect. jumped up itallian pricks.
Guest MattP Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 i got into a raging rant with my juve supporting manager once about this. how was that all liverpools fault there?! those ****ers need to learn some respect. jumped up itallian pricks. It's pretty clear whose fault it was (even though for 20 years they even tried to blame "cockney accents" for it, god grief) The Heysel Stadium disaster occurred on 29 May 1985 when escaping fans were pressed against a wall in the Heysel Stadium in Brussels, Belgium, as a result of rioting before the start of the 1985 European Cup Final between Liverpool of England and Juventus of Italy. Thirty-nine Juventus fans died and 600 were injured.Approximately one hour before the Liverpool-Juventus final was due to kick off, a large group of Liverpool fans breached a fence separating them from a "neutral area" which contained rival Juventus fans. The Juventus fans ran back on the terraces and away from the threat into a concrete retaining wall. Fans already seated near the wall were crushed; eventually the wall collapsed. Many people climbed over to safety, but many others died or were badly injured. The game was played despite the disaster in order to prevent further violence.[1] The tragedy resulted in all English football clubs being placed under an indefinite ban by UEFA from all European competitions (lifted in 1990–91), with Liverpool being excluded for an additional year and a number of Liverpool fans prosecuted for manslaughter. The disaster was later described as "the darkest hour in the history of the UEFA competitions".[2]
ramboacdc Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 It's pretty clear whose fault it was (even though for 20 years they even tried to blame "cockney accents" for it, god grief) point taken. i stand corrected on that point thank you . but that banner is uncalled for in any walk of life.
Guest MattP Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 point taken. i stand corrected on that point thank you . but that banner is uncalled for in any walk of life. No problem and I do agree, though can understand the frustrations of the Juve fans who did it.
Guest Bilo Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 It is, but if you were a Juventus fan you could probably understand it. When you have seen you own fans murdered by another teams supporters and then see them totally get away with it you might think Karma hits back one day. Thats not a personal view, just trying to put myself in the position of a Juventus fan who came back from a match without his Dad because of the behaviour of Liverpool supporters. That "I'm sorry" banner they wheeled out a few years back was sickening as well, I was glad when the 2,000 travelling Juve fans turned their backs on it. The thing is that the 'Forza Milano' banner in front of it shows it has bugger all to do with Juve. I could sort of understand it if it was a Juve banner because the Liverpool fans behaved like animals that evening and deserved to face the full force of international law. I personally feel that the decision to ban all English clubs was immensely damaging to English football as a whole and amounted to collective punishment; small clubs like Luton, Coventry and Wimbledon missed out on the opportunity to compete in Europe as a result. Liverpool and Liverpool alone should have been hit with a 10 year ban. That said, UEFA and the Belgian police don't get away scot free. The former should never have allowed such a high profile match to be played at such a patently inadequate stadium and should have properly inspected the facilities. Had this match been played at, for example, the Parc Des Princes or Olympiastadion in Munich it's highly unlikely 56 people would have died. The latter had woefully inadequate and naive tactics due to their inexperience. Obviously neither of these would have been tested had the Liverpool fans decided to act like human beings but it does make you think about it slightly differently.
Guest MattP Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 The thing is that the 'Forza Milano' banner in front of it shows it has bugger all to do with Juve. I could sort of understand it if it was a Juve banner because the Liverpool fans behaved like animals that evening and deserved to face the full force of international law. I personally feel that the decision to ban all English clubs was immensely damaging to English football as a whole and amounted to collective punishment; small clubs like Luton, Coventry and Wimbledon missed out on the opportunity to compete in Europe as a result. Liverpool and Liverpool alone should have been hit with a 10 year ban. That said, UEFA and the Belgian police don't get away scot free. The former should never have allowed such a high profile match to be played at such a patently inadequate stadium and should have properly inspected the facilities. Had this match been played at, for example, the Parc Des Princes or Olympiastadion in Munich it's highly unlikely 56 people would have died. The latter had woefully inadequate and naive tactics due to their inexperience. Obviously neither of these would have been tested had the Liverpool fans decided to act like human beings but it does make you think about it slightly differently. Agree on police, it happened a lot in europe back then didnt it? Only in recent years have police forces on the continenet managed to achieve out level of crowd control. That is the Juve fans - "the Forza Milano" banner is on show as they stole it from the AC Milan ultras in the earlier meeting that season.
Guest Bilo Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 Agree on police, it happened a lot in europe back then didnt it? Only in recent years have police forces on the continenet managed to achieve out level of crowd control. That is the Juve fans - "the Forza Milano" banner is on show as they stole it from the AC Milan ultras in the earlier meeting that season. I stand corrected then fella. I should point out on Heysel as well that concern as to its condition had been expressed to UEFA numerous times before 1985, but they failed to act on them even though the Camp Nou and the Bernabeu were apparently available. The Liverpool chairman also asked UEFA to reconsider but UEFA refused.
accessory Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 Getting back on topic.. Government response to petition The Government has confirmed its commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure. All papers had previously been shared with the Hillsborough Independent Panel. The Government is happy for all the papers, including Cabinet papers, to be released as soon as the Panel so decides, in consultation with the families. We expect them to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then to the wider public.
Alexikokopops Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 Closed. Don't think our government can do anything about that. It's a great shame a lot of the Liverpool fans who murdered fellow football fans that night never stood trial for manslaughter though. I'm sure Italian fans feel the same.... I was reading Fever Pitch for the first time (I know, I'm a bit late) and Nick Hornby described it as another of the "charges" that went on week in, week out during 80s football in the UK. I'm not condoning what they did, and agree there is an argument for manslaughter, but I wouldn't agree that it was murder.
ramboacdc Posted 24 August 2011 Posted 24 August 2011 No problem and I do agree, though can understand the frustrations of the Juve fans who did it. yeah i can understand it. no one should die going to watch their team play. but to wish revenge and say that it prooves theres a god is beyond sick. yeah hold a grudge or whatever. im sure leeds and galatasaray fans still do for that guy getting stabbed but no one should ever die at football ever. back to the hillsborough thing. i wasnt born but as its well known my dad is a liverpool fan. and he watched it live (mum was up the duff with me at the time) and he has a strong standpoint about it. from all ive seen and heard (incuding the debate on five live the other afternoon) it seems like what has happened is fans are there who want to get in near kick off. police have let them in but let them into the wrong pen and not closed it off. theres all the stories of drunk liverpool fans throwing stones at fire engines and looting ambulances and that so it could be a bit of 6 of one. no one should,in my opinion, stand trial for manslaughter or anything. but liverpool fans have always been so passionate about it i dont think they could ever rest even if they did get all the files. i mean man u have munich. no one still calls for investigations on that. bradford have the fire hell even rangers has the ibrox disaster.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.