Thatcher Dies

[leicsmac]

It's through the niavety of Attlee and his post war government that we are now saddled with a welfare state that is the laughing stock of the world. I'm sure he would turn in his grave if he could see what his well meaning but ultimately futile effort to trust in the honesty and goodness of the average man.

Lets face it he could not have got much wrong after coming out of a world war. New housing had to be built which produced plenty of employment and a general air of looking forward to the future. Lucky for him he did not live to see the abject shambles that the present modern welfare is. I'm sure he would brake down in tears at the sight of Philpott and all the rest of the scrounging benifit scum that to this day live off the back of his niavity.

Cynical much? Most people are decent.

On another note, It still amazes me how polarising this has been. The Sun editorial today criticises the BBC for calling Thatcher 'divisive'. I would have thought even the most ardent right-winger would admit to her being exactly that.

[leicsmac]

Thing is we are not talking about " these days " back in Thatchers time there was a marked difference between tory policy and Labour. Blairs " new Labour " blurred the line and there was not much to separate them.

That's true. But from what I can tell, social mobility of any kind has always been pretty difficult in this country, regardless of who is in Government at the time. Nepotism is still a huge factor.

[Deucalion]

I think this is wrong. All economic case studies suggest changes need to be made quickly not slowly. All that would have happened is a more prolonged turmoil.

Thatcher's policies worsened the recession at the beginning of the 80s. According to John Freeman (?), the originator of monetary theory, surplus capital should be squeezed out of the economy during periods of growth to control inflation and prevent boom and bust.

Thatcher applied monetary policy during a recession, resulting in mass unemployment, the death of manufacturing industry in this country and the creation of a underclass reliant on welfare handouts, due to their being no prospects of gainful employment.

What 'economic case studies' suggest otherwise? We are in a similar situation now and most economists say that swinging cuts are damaging Britain's ability to recover from recession. The IMF say that the British government should desist from suppressing growth by cutting demand from the economy.

[flowwolf]

Middle class bollocks

Insight sheer insight and laid out before us in devastating style.

[MooseBreath]

Deregulation of financial services is what has kept this country from poverty for the last 30 years. Without our service industry we don't have much.

Presumably thatch-haters would have simply kept the mines going indefinitely, subsidising their dwindling returns with money which just appeared out of thin air.

Thatcher saw the way we needed to go to and took us there. A lot of people got hurt in the process, hence the polarisation, but that's the price of progress.

In the last 10-20 years we've witnessed the country stagnate, gradually losing its wealth and status, strangled from the inside by liberals and pressure groups and various campaigners, all circling the country like vultures ready to swoop and take a bit of what they want at the first opportunity. What we've lacked is a leader who isn't scared to take people on, who won't pander to some idiotic feminist or some one-dimensional activist or the hippy liberal scum. We need someone who isn't scared to piss people off, to make life difficult for some people to benefit the country as a whole. That's exactly what Thatcher was, and what we've sorely missed ever since.

[Alf Bentley]

According to John Freeman (?), the originator of monetary theory, surplus capital should be squeezed out of the economy during periods of growth to control inflation and prevent boom and bust.

Milton Friedman? Do I get an undersized Curly Wurly as a prize?

p.s. "Friedman" is not another pun on bakeries...or chip shops

[ADK]

I thought Thatcher cut taxes and ran a deficit? I'll admit i don't know alot about macroeconomic policy in the 80's. I do agree with running a deficit to stimulate the economy in a recession and the opposite during boom. This is something the present government is failing at. I think the problem with manufacturing was not replacing old industries with new ones.

[flowwolf]

That's true. But from what I can tell, social mobility of any kind has always been pretty difficult in this country, regardless of who is in Government at the time. Nepotism is still a huge factor.

Agreed good point. No government seems to be able to shake off this pathetic class system. Labour hierarchy are nearly all ex public schoolboys or come from wealthy backgrounds so have no real idea about the working class, yet they pretend they are as one with us. lying silver spooned idiots.

[ADK]

Deregulation of financial services is what has kept this country from poverty for the last 30 years. Without our service industry we don't have much.

Presumably thatch-haters would have simply kept the mines going indefinitely, subsidising their dwindling returns with money which just appeared out of thin air.

Thatcher saw the way we needed to go to and took us there. A lot of people got hurt in the process, hence the polarisation, but that's the price of progress.

In the last 10-20 years we've witnessed the country stagnate, gradually losing its wealth and status, strangled from the inside by liberals and pressure groups and various campaigners, all circling the country like vultures ready to swoop and take a bit of what they want at the first opportunity. What we've lacked is a leader who isn't scared to take people on, who won't pander to some idiotic feminist or some one-dimensional activist or the hippy liberal scum. We need someone who isn't scared to piss people off, to make life difficult for some people to benefit the country as a whole. That's exactly what Thatcher was, and what we've sorely missed ever since.

Sounds likes the BNP.

[ADK]

Agreed good point. No government seems to be able to shake off this pathetic class system. Labour hierarchy are nearly all ex public schoolboys or come from wealthy backgrounds so have no real idea about the working class, yet they pretend they are as one with us. lying silver spooned idiots.

True, i think Labour and the left are more at fault than Thatcher for divisive politics.

[Deucalion]

Deregulation of financial services is what has kept this country from poverty for the last 30 years. Without our service industry we don't have much.

Presumably thatch-haters would have simply kept the mines going indefinitely, subsidising their dwindling returns with money which just appeared out of thin air.

Thatcher saw the way we needed to go to and took us there. A lot of people got hurt in the process, hence the polarisation, but that's the price of progress.

Deregulation of financial services was necessary because Thatcher killed off manufacturing. While it provides plenty of income to the south, it sucks up all investment and government policy, resulting in other parts of the country still in a state of neglect. The world has changed since Thatcher. Due to rising living standards and costs in the former Third World, manufacturing in this country can be done on a more level playing field. What a shame all the factories and skills were thrown away in the 80s.

China's economic revolution is driven by coal. They can't get enough of the stuff and it is now, again, a valuable commodity. We have loads of coal sitting below the ground but have destroyed the infrastructure needed to extract it.

Therefore, it could be argued that a lot of people got hurt during Thatcher's reforms to achieve nothing more than short-term cost reduction at the expense of long-term job prospects, exports and prosperity.

[_Fatboyslow_]

Sounds likes the BNP.

A bit more to right pls

[ADK]

We have this self perpetuating thing with the north-south divide where we pay public sector workers more money in the south to do the same job. While there's some logic in doing this (cost of housing) it does lead to a self perpetuating problem.

[Guest MattP]

And Atlee was voted out of office after just over a term by the people.

Let me guess, we ran out of money?

[Alf Bentley]

It's through the naivety of Attlee.... Blah! Blah! Right-wing bollocks...

You're perfectly entitled to your negative views of Attlee, just as lefties are entitled to their negative views of Thatcher.

However, nobody in their right mind would deny that, as PMs, they stand out for having a major impact on this country.

Attlee did not have a state funeral or a "ceremonial" funeral, gun carriage through the streets etc. The Queen did not attend.

Thatcher will have all that. The only other PM to be honoured in this way was Churchill (understandably, given WW2).

This is a major constitutional error on the part of both the government and Buckingham Palace, as it sows division and brings the political neutrality of the royal family into question. It is also, apparently, against Thatcher's own wishes for there to be no state funeral (in name or de facto). If Wednesday sees scenes of people booing as the Queen arrives, or fights with the police, the government and the Palace will bear a heavy responsibility for that.

Thatcher, eh? Even (unintentionally) sowing division when she's dead!

[Deucalion]

And Atlee was voted out of office after just over a term by the people.

Let me guess, we ran out of money?

People are stupid and should not be allow to vote.

[flowwolf]

Deregulation of financial services was necessary because Thatcher killed off manufacturing. While it provides plenty of income to the south, it sucks up all investment and government policy, resulting in other parts of the country still in a state of neglect. The world has changed since Thatcher. Due to rising living standards and costs in the former Third World, manufacturing in this country can be done on a more level playing field. What a shame all the factories and skills were thrown away in the 80s.

China's economic revolution is driven by coal. They can't get enough of the stuff and it is now, again, a valuable commodity. We have loads of coal sitting below the ground but have destroyed the infrastructure needed to extract it.

Therefore, it could be argued that a lot of people got hurt during Thatcher's reforms to achieve nothing more than short-term cost reduction at the expense of long-term job prospects, exports and prosperity.

Yes I agree but don't you think ALL governments are guilty of short term policy ? Each time one gets the other one out they spend much of their term of office trying to undo what the other put in place before them.

[ADK]

According to wiki Atlee actually won 2 elections in 1945 and in 1950.

[Guest MattP]

This is a major constitutional error on the part of both the government and Buckingham Palace, as it sows division and brings the political neutrality of the royal family into question. It is also, apparently, against Thatcher's own wishes for there to be no state funeral (in name or de facto). If Wednesday sees scenes of people booing as the Queen arrives, or fights with the police, the government and the Palace will bear a heavy responsibility for that.

Maybe the Queen and Thatcher shared a friendship, she should be allowed to attend in a personal capacity.

If we have booing and fighting on Wednesday, the people booing and fighting take responsibility for that, no one else.

[_Fatboyslow_]

Just for the record during the Falklands I was working for Plessey connectors . Two years after conflick the plant shut. Not due to the unions, going bust or the recession. Due to the polices being pursued by the goverment in the telecom market. Plessey pulled out before it went bust.

[leicsmac]

And Atlee was voted out of office after just over a term by the people.

Let me guess, we ran out of money?

The only reason Thatcher lasted more than one term was by having a good war to sink her teeth into and stoking up nationalistic fervour when it was won.

Yes I agree but don't you think ALL governments are guilty of short term policy ? Each time one gets the other one out they spend much of their term of office trying to undo what the other put in place before them.

Yep, and that's the main imperfection with the British poltical system. It encourage that kind of short-termism.

[Guest MattP]

According to wiki Atlee actually won 2 elections in 1945 and in 1950.

Sorry a term and a bit, he called one again in 1951 to try and increase his majority and lost to an over the hill and past his sell by date Churchill.

The only reason Thatcher lasted more than one term was by having a good war to sink her teeth into and stoking up nationalistic fervour when it was won.

Of course it was, even if people were completely desolute a war being won turns you back into a Tory.

[_Fatboyslow_]

Maybe the Queen and Thatcher shared a friendship, she should be allowed to attend in a personal capacity.

That just shows a total lack of understanding of the issues involed

[flowwolf]

You're perfectly entitled to your negative views of Attlee, just as lefties are entitled to their negative views of Thatcher.

However, nobody in their right mind would deny that, as PMs, they stand out for having a major impact on this country.

Attlee did not have a state funeral or a "ceremonial" funeral, gun carriage through the streets etc. The Queen did not attend.

Thatcher will have all that. The only other PM to be honoured in this way was Churchill (understandably, given WW2).

This is a major constitutional error on the part of both the government and Buckingham Palace, as it sows division and brings the political neutrality of the royal family into question. It is also, apparently, against Thatcher's own wishes for there to be no state funeral (in name or de facto). If Wednesday sees scenes of people booing as the Queen arrives, or fights with the police, the government and the Palace will bear a heavy responsibility for that.

Thatcher, eh? Even (unintentionally) sowing division when she's dead!

No I have not got negative views of Attlee at least he tried to do something for the working class.It's just that he was naive when it came to setting up a sytem that would quickly become open to abuse , and we have had to live with the consequence ever since.

[_Fatboyslow_]

People are stupid and should not be allow to vote.

And greedy