Thatcher Dies

[inckley fox]

Deregulation of financial services is what has kept this country from poverty for the last 30 years. Without our service industry we don't have much.

Presumably thatch-haters would have simply kept the mines going indefinitely, subsidising their dwindling returns with money which just appeared out of thin air.

Thatcher saw the way we needed to go to and took us there. A lot of people got hurt in the process, hence the polarisation, but that's the price of progress.

In the last 10-20 years we've witnessed the country stagnate, gradually losing its wealth and status, strangled from the inside by liberals and pressure groups and various campaigners, all circling the country like vultures ready to swoop and take a bit of what they want at the first opportunity. What we've lacked is a leader who isn't scared to take people on, who won't pander to some idiotic feminist or some one-dimensional activist or the hippy liberal scum. We need someone who isn't scared to piss people off, to make life difficult for some people to benefit the country as a whole. That's exactly what Thatcher was, and what we've sorely missed ever since.

Deregulation has been largely blamed for the current world financial crisis. And no, besides the services industry we don't have much, that's right. Thatcher didn't excel in improving that situation by closing down dockyards, steel works and mines.

We didn't progress under Thatcher, this is the problem. She left us with precisely the same heady inflation rates that she inherited, but with more unemployed and a third economic crisis in little more than a decade just around the corner. She did nothing to fix the Ireland problem, our education ranking plummeted and our NHS - which she considered scrapping - nearly fell apart. She had no coherent welfare policy, acted after rather than before the Falklands crisis, crime rates increased, our productivity suffered and social unrest reached its highest levels since the 1830s. In the end she was left because even her own government lacked faith in her.

So if Britain didn't progress under Thatcher, how could she be the answer to our current 'stagnation'. You blame 'various campaigners', 'activists', 'liberals' and 'pressure groups' for this stagnation. Seeing as campaigning, liberals and activists are critical to any democracy, are you suggesting that some sort of tyrannical regime might be the answer?

[Deucalion]

inckley fox = super sub !!

[ozleicester]

It's certainly a possibility. I'm sure there's a precedent buried somewhere.

I think your mixing up your Charles's with your richards?

Is she still dead? I can only assume that this thread is continuing because she's been reanimated.

She mustve been the first time.. no reason she wouldnt be again

[_Fatboyslow_]

Deregulation has been largely blamed for the current world financial crisis. And no, besides the services industry we don't have much, that's right. Thatcher didn't excel in improving that situation by closing down dockyards, steel works and mines.

We didn't progress under Thatcher, this is the problem. She left us with precisely the same heady inflation rates that she inherited, but with more unemployed and a third economic crisis in little more than a decade just around the corner. She did nothing to fix the Ireland problem, our education ranking plummeted and our NHS - which she considered scrapping - nearly fell apart. She had no coherent welfare policy, acted after rather than before the Falklands crisis, crime rates increased, our productivity suffered and social unrest reached its highest levels since the 1830s. In the end she was left because even her own government lacked faith in her.

So if Britain didn't progress under Thatcher, how could she be the answer to our current 'stagnation'. You blame 'various campaigners', 'activists', 'liberals' and 'pressure groups' for this stagnation. Seeing as campaigning, liberals and activists are critical to any democracy, are you suggesting that some sort of tyrannical regime might be the answer?

Phew I was starting to think it was all a bad dream

[Trav Le Bleu]

http://youtu.be/i0mu2Qhr6S0

[DB11]

Ding Dong! is number one in iTunes now, and going up in the BBC's chart also. I wonder if they'll play it Sunday

[Guest MattP]

Ding Dong! is number one in iTunes now, and going up in the BBC's chart also. I wonder if they'll play it Sunday

They should, if that's what the people have bought they should play it.

In fact it's Thatcher's capitalism working at it's finest.

[inckley fox]

They should, if that's what the people have bought they should play it.

In fact it's Thatcher's capitalism working at it's finest.

Didn't we have number ones before Thatcher then?

[Guest MattP]

Didn't we have number ones before Thatcher then?

I mean the fact people pay money out of a choice for the product they consider the best and that choice won't be censored in anyway.

Thatcher herself would agree it should be played.

[Finnegan]

But this week Thatcher fans have been unrestrained in their abuse for anyone not displaying “compassionâ€. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and accept they’ve just discovered it. They’re all going to the doctors saying: “I’ve been getting this strange sort of caring feeling towards someone who isn’t me. Do I need antibiotics?â€

http://www.independe...ad-8568785.html

lol

[inckley fox]

I mean the fact people pay money out of a choice for the product they consider the best and that choice won't be censored in anyway.

Thatcher herself would agree it should be played.

It's a shame she didn't apply that logic to the video industry, when films were banned left right and centre for being gory, sexual or offensive. Censorship was at its most stringent for over two decades under her rule. She tried to suppress television programmes which told of abuses of authority by threatening to have networks shut down, introduced the 18 rating, banned scores of movies which, clearly, plenty of people were keen on buying (including Straw Dogs, The Exorcist, Texas Chainsaw Massacre) and banned the voices of Irish Republicans on TV and radio (including the good old 'capitalist' independent stations).

I'm not sure her libertarianism stretched as far as you might think.

[Bellend Sebastian]

But this week Thatcher fans have been unrestrained in their abuse for anyone not displaying “compassionâ€. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and accept they’ve just discovered it. They’re all going to the doctors saying: “I’ve been getting this strange sort of caring feeling towards someone who isn’t me. Do I need antibiotics?â€

http://www.independe...ad-8568785.html

lol

I did enjoy that article when I read it earlier, particularly the last paragraph

[Finnegan]

I did enjoy that article when I read it earlier, particularly the last paragraph

yes, I nearly put that one in my post instead. It is superb.

Good article.

[Alf Bentley]

But this week Thatcher fans have been unrestrained in their abuse for anyone not displaying “compassionâ€. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and accept they’ve just discovered it. They’re all going to the doctors saying: “I’ve been getting this strange sort of caring feeling towards someone who isn’t me. Do I need antibiotics?â€

http://www.independe...ad-8568785.html

lol

Excellent! I'd forgotten about Mark Steel for a while. Used to sometimes get the Indie purely for his articles.

An infinitely better "political comedian" than, say, the smug, sanctimonious hypocrite Ben Elton. Not only is his politics more rooted in real life and intelligent philosophy, but his humour is genuinely funny (unlike Elton).

He did a series of humorous, but factually-based profiles on philosophers, historical figures etc. a couple of years back - went out lateish on BBC2, but deserved a much higher profile as they were informative and bloody hilarious!

[Daggers]

Quite fitting that she's going to be bussed all over London in front of people.

[Finnegan]

[I am Rod Hull]

But this week Thatcher fans have been unrestrained in their abuse for anyone not displaying “compassionâ€. Maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt and accept they’ve just discovered it. They’re all going to the doctors saying: “I’ve been getting this strange sort of caring feeling towards someone who isn’t me. Do I need antibiotics?â€

http://www.independe...ad-8568785.html

lol

Theres an interesting reply underneath the article.

"The unions had quite undemocratically brought down two governments and were crippling the economy by striking at the drop of a hat. This couldn't go on. Eventually someone would have had to act. But, Maggie came in, acted, and crushed the unions. You could say Red Robbo and Arthur Scargill created their own monster in Maggie. As usual they were destroyed by their own creation."

[Guest MattP]

Ugh.

How many of these common ugly rancid women are there in this party?

[lavrentis]

Ugh.

How many of these common ugly rancid women are there in this party?

Reminds me of the labour woman on Question time that called UKIP a disgusting party.

Then her getting ripped to shreds by Melanie Phillips.

[Finnegan]

Ugh.

How many of these common ugly rancid women are there in this party?

Ugly? Rancid? You mad? Alright, you wouldn't do her now, but she is in her late seventies! Fifty years ago you'd have been all over that! (Zingo almost certainly let one go over Ms. J!)

Reminds me of the labour woman on Question time that called UKIP a disgusting party.

Then her getting ripped to shreds by Melanie Phillips.

... except Jackson was concise, eloquent, accurate and was made to look a fool by nobody?

[Vacamion]

Ugh.

How many of these common ugly rancid women are there in this party?

Not sure I'm too keen on politicians (of any hue) being judged on how they look rather than what they say and do.

[21st Century Fox]

Ugh.

How many of these common ugly rancid women are there in this party?

.... He ironically wrote in a thread about Thatcher

Not sure I'm too keen on politicians (of any hue) being judged on how they look rather than what they say and do.

That.

[lavrentis]

Looks like she won the argument to me.

Hate the EU fanatic Ken Clarkes smug face in that video

[acooling08]

Eww, her face looks like a bulldog that fell into a pile of rakes.

Fair play to her though, she kept on going despite the boos and heckles.

And Finners that woman who started abusing the UKIP lady on QT was just vile. Just jumping on the Guardian bangwagon of blaming any party right of centre of being racist. She got put in her place by the panel.

[Finnegan]

Reminds me of the labour woman on Question time that called UKIP a disgusting party.

Then her getting ripped to shreds by Melanie Phillips.

Looks like she won the argument to me.

Hate the EU fanatic Ken Clarkes smug face in that video

And Finners that woman who started abusing the UKIP lady on QT was just vile. Just jumping on the Guardian bangwagon of blaming any party right of centre of being racist. She got put in her place by the panel.

Oh dear, you two. If that's what you took from that clip on QT then I think you're both clutching at straws more than a little bit.

Firstly, "the labour woman" on Question Time, is a member of the public. A young, frustrated member of the public giving an opinion. She's not a member of parliament or a counsellor she's just an audience participator on a topical panel show. Melanie Phillips is an Oxford graduate in English and a prize winning journalist who's written for some immensely respectable publications (before letting herself down and joining the Mail!)

That a woman with Phillips' experience and eloquence in a debate can deliver a decent riposte to a ranting student isn't particularly newsworthy. It'd be like Man U fans boasting and chest thumping because their side stuck a few by Hinckley.

Secondly, Phillips isn't particularly attacking the girl in question. Her real issue here is with Cameron and the Conservative party who, as she's very right to point out, have hugely shot themselves in the foot by condemning UKIP in such a fashion that insults core members of their own demographic. Phillips was out to answer the original question poised, not to counter someone's issue with UKIP - she merely defended their supporters against the 'disgusting' slur, pointing out they hold views that many do. That's all.

Lastly, and most significantly, why a UKIP supporter would actually want to show that video at all is completely beyond me. In it, the above mentioned young, frustrated member of the public practically crucifies a UKIP party member and highlights how absolutely absurd their party literature is. To which extent, I think the phrase "scaremongering" is completely fair. Fifty six percent of an entire country's populace to uproot to one country? Really? Ridiculous.

The party's representative left to flounder around with no reasonable defence and got lucky when a panellist journo waded in with a little bit of articulate charisma and common sense.