Alf Bentley

You're quite right. 99.9% of the referendum debate was about what sort of deal we'd leave with (in or out of SM/CU; Norway, Canada or Albania model; easy, very easy or piss-easy etc.). But we didn't vote how to Leave, so leaving with No Deal was not specifically precluded. Nor was...... - Leaving the EU but allowing free entry to the French, allowing them to freely come in and rub garlic all over our copies of The Sun, while running around being all foreign and Muslim looking - Digging the UK up by the foundations, towing it across the Atlantic and ramming it up Donald Trump's fat hairy orange arse.... Likewise, nothing undemocratic about Boris' indirectly elected status (assuming it happens tomorrow) - elected by the largest political party, then his status presumably elected indirectly as PM by Parliament tomorrow.... Juncker and Ursula von der Leyen were also chosen by a party political majority & then approved by the EU Parliament.......so Boris will have as much of a democratic mandate as Juncker or Von der Leyen....

Tory MP for Dover charged with 3 sexual assaults against 2 women, but denies accusations: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/22/tory-mp-charlie-elphicke-charged-with-sexual-assault Will be interesting to see how the Tory Party reacts to this. When the allegations were first raised, they suspended him from party whip - but then reinstated him in time for the May confidence vote. Not helpful with their wafer-thin majority or with their low ratings among women voters. Dover would be a hell of a place to have a by-election with Brexit in the offing, as Britain's busiest channel port - and a Con-Lab marginal (usually), but with obvious potential for the Brexit Party.....though some way off that yet. Could be fun if a by-election happened just after a No Deal Brexit with 20-mile lorry tailbacks or whatever.

Much bigger margin than expected, it seems. What does it mean? Any political or strategic shifts she's likely to make? Over to our Lib Dems expert...... @LiberalFox

The poor lad will have a lifelong Freudian fear of women's genitals now! You've eliminated any chance you ever had of becoming grandparents now.....either that or he'll go the other way and become a sex maniac like his Dad!

I specifically remember asking my Dad the same question when I was about 7 and saw it written on the wall of a public toilet we'd gone into. My Dad told me it was "a female willy"....which wasn't really a full definition, was it, eh, Dad? Sort of depends whether the graffiti writer had sex or violence on his mind.... What answer did you give?

Hmmmm.... I don't doubt for a minute the distinct possibility that Trump might get a second term - or that the Democrats might put up a weak candidate and shoot themselves in the foot to help him do that. Not to mention the unpredictability of an election that will presumably be even dirtier and more polarised than previous presidential elections.... But.... Unless I'm misreading those comparative polls, at this stage of the cycle Trump's ratings are lower than those of any other first-term president for the past 50 years.....with the exception of Jimmy Carter, who didn't get a second term. He's even behind George H.W. Bush, who didn't get a second term.... I'm not saying that I necessarily expect him to lose. My guess is that it is likely to be close and to depend on events in the meantime, how the public react to a filthy campaign & whether the Democrats find a decent candidate. But those polls gave me some hope that the cvnt might get booted out after a single term. Long, long way to go yet, though.....and will be interesting to see if he even accepts defeat if he does lose.

I've done an exclusive interview with Humpty Dumpty and got some great quotes. Egg citing times ahead. @Izzy @Wortho Is there any escape from this hellish addiction or do I have to spend the rest of my life in the Joke Thread?

It might be if they do a graft to reverse the circumcision when you're older.

Yep. With hindsight, it would have been good if the original legislation had ordered a second referendum once terms were negotiated - with a No Deal option, if need be, as well as Deal & Remain options. The other alternative would have been for the Leave outcome to be clearly specified....but that was probably impossible. Even if there had been agreement on the Leave side, terms had to be negotiated with the EU. I'm still inclined to blame Cameron for this mess, more than Boris, Farage, Corbyn or ERG, much as I have no time for any of the latter. I don't know, maybe I'm just getting more anxious/pessimistic with age, but I don't think so. I think my concern is based on rational analysis - and where we could be heading, if we fvck this up, really does concern me. Who'd have thought, a couple of year ago, that we'd be debating the suspension of democracy & would be awaiting potentially the biggest loose cannon ever as PM? And that's all before any inadequately prepared No Deal even happens, with all the conceivable impacts on lots of lives, relationships, attitudes, snowball effect..... I seriously worry for the future stability of the nation if a rash outcome occurs.

Completely agree - including the bit about sanity. I've honestly never felt remotely as unhappy about the state of my country, about the prospects for a stable, peaceful future here and about what sort of country my daughter will inherit. If I didn't have her, I would genuinely be looking to leave the UK. I've never said that before and never anticipated saying it or doing it - and I'm almost 57. Personally, I find the prospects of No Deal alarming - not so much the inevitable initial mayhem, more what happens in the aftermath: major damage to a lot of individual lives, communities, social fabric, international reputation, relations between ordinary people on the ground....and I'm not even one of those particularly vulnerable to potential impact, apart from via my daughter. I'm aware that last paragraph is controversial in that some people don't believe the experts and think No Deal would be fine - not an argument that I want to get into. But surely the very least that needs to happen is for there to be a proper mandate from the electorate for No Deal - via election or referendum? I'd hate it if that mandate was achieved, but would hate it even more - and fear the consequences more - if it happened without any proper mandate.

How it matters is that it prevents the new PM suspending democracy to force through No Deal without parliamentary debate/vote. Pretty important for democracy not to be suspended, I think. I agree it doesn't prevent No Deal or guarantee an extension (which the PM would have to request & EU would have to approve - for a good reason). I also agree that revoking should be avoided if at all possible, as it would cause justified democratic outrage & potential public disorder. But parliament will now have a say in the final stages, if we're heading for No Deal. It might end up allowing No Deal to proceed. But it might find a way of blocking it, even if that means somehow forcing the PM to request an extension or to revoke. Or it might trigger a confidence vote and general election, which might not have succeeded at an earlier stage. Who knows? But how does Boris proceed now (assuming he's PM)? - Call an early election to get a pro-No Deal majority? - Believe that he can out-manoeuvre parliament to get No Deal through? - Backslide, get a few token concessions from the EU & declare it a new deal better than May's, hoping to fool his hardliners? - Believe he can get a genuinely new deal from the EU to satisfy the ERG (the least likely outcome, I'd say)

Big win for those seeking to prevent our new PM suspending democracy - yes, suspending democracy, not "proroguing parliament" - so as to force through No Deal: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-vote-result-no-deal-commons-boris-johnson-prorogue-amendment-a9010606.html If Boris or Hunt want to push through No Deal, they'll now have to face debates and votes in parliament. 1 minister resigned (Margot James) & 4 cabinet ministers abstained (Hammond, Stewart, Gauke & Clark). Only 1 Labour MP voted with the Govt (Hoey) & a handful abstained. Where does Boris (?) go from here with his promise to leave the EU by 31st October, do or die? General election in Sept/Oct? Back down and face the fury of the ERG/Brexit Party? I cannot see the EU making the concessions the hardliners want or negotiating a new deal before then....am I wrong?

Adopted South African musician/singer Johnny Clegg: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/16/johnny-clegg-south-african-singer-and-activist-dies-aged-66 One day "Scatterlings of Africa", next day scattering of ashes. An unusual & impressive trajectory, judging from that obituary.

Yeah, very niche homoerotic S&M stuff, though, Mike. Him and his crew like to dress up in Nazi regalia, get covered in milkshake and then beat one another up, I heard. All very kinky and not the sort of stuff that we'd want to get involved in.

No, I wouldn't, Wymes. Half the people who would have attended have died themselves and most of my remaining friends & family live a long way away. So, I'd expect a very poor attendance! Not exactly a morale booster for me, then. Cannot imagine it being a security-inducing, psychologically beneficial event for my teenage daughter, either....