An Open Letter to David Davis MP

[Iftikhar]

Established 1981

London School of Islamics

An Educational Trust

63 Margery Park Road London E7 9LD

Email: [email protected]

www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Tel/Fax: 0208 555 2733 / 07817 112 667

An Open Letter to David Davis MP

David Davis MP said that Britain’s traditional policy of multiculturalism is now “outdatedâ€Â. Gerald Howarth MP is of the opinion that Muslim should leave this country. The owner of local radio station, broadcasting in Copenhagen suggests killing Muslims in order to combat terrorism. He holds all Muslims responsible for the London blast. A damning new report by Professor Carl Parsons of Canterbury Christ Church University College has found that institutional racism exists within British schools. Britain’s ethnic minorities will always be perceived as outsiders.

Multiculturalism has always been defined and implemented wrongly by the British establishment. Multiculturalism involves a level of complexity which cannot be understood from the prospective of any single discipline. Instead, historical, cultural, linguistic, political, economic, educational, sociological and psychological factors and processes all play a critical role. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. Each culture will maintain its own intrinsic value and at the same time would be expected to contribute to the benefit of the whole society. Multiculturalism can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious, so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. Britain can assume the role of accommodation and concern for all peoples, for our planet and indeed for our survival. We live in a rapidly changing world. British Muslims are ordinary people with the same sorts of ambitions, frustrations, failures and successes as anybody else. We are just like you, go to work, pay taxes, obey the law and just want to get on with our everyday life. We are hated simply for following Islam.

According to labour’s Karen Buck, Muslims in Britain are now at the sharper end of race hatred and xenophobia. West has many stereotypes, misconceptions about Islam that are due to the media, prejudice and ignorance. Islam is often looked upon as an extremist, terrorist religion. To fight malaria, one does not shoot down mosquitoes, one drains the swamps. Urgent government action is needed to tackle Islamophobia and “institutional disadvantages†suffered by British Muslim community. Now it has become widely accepted that, in Bernard Lewis’ words, “Europe will be Islamic by the end of the centuryâ€Â. The greater Islamist threat to the West is not violence-flattening buildings, bombing railroad stations and night clubs, seizing theaters and schools – but the peaceful, legal growth of power through education, the law, the media and the political system.

Iftikhar Ahmad

[Babylon]

“Europe will be Islamic by the end of the centuryâ€Â

158510[/snapback]

Good job i'll be dead then.

What exactly are you trying to achieve here?

[Sparky]

Established 1981

London School of Islamics   

An Educational Trust

63 Margery Park Road London E7 9LD

  Email: [email protected]

www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Tel/Fax: 0208 555 2733 / 07817 112 667

An Open Letter to David Davis MP

David Davis MP said that Britain’s traditional policy of multiculturalism is now “outdatedâ€Â. Gerald Howarth MP is of the opinion that Muslim should leave this country. The owner of local radio station, broadcasting in Copenhagen suggests killing Muslims in order to combat terrorism. He holds all Muslims responsible for the London blast. A damning new report by Professor Carl Parsons of Canterbury Christ Church University College has found that institutional racism exists within British schools. Britain’s ethnic minorities will always be perceived as outsiders.

Multiculturalism has always been defined and implemented wrongly by the British establishment. Multiculturalism involves a level of complexity which cannot be understood from the prospective of any single discipline. Instead, historical, cultural, linguistic, political, economic, educational, sociological and psychological factors and processes all play a critical role. Multiculturalism is not about integration but about cultural plurality. It is not about separation but about respect and the deepening awareness of Unity in Diversity. Each culture will maintain its own intrinsic value and at the same time would be expected to contribute to the benefit of the whole society. Multiculturalism can accommodate diversity of all kinds – cultural, philosophical and religious, so that we can create a world without conflict and strife. Britain can assume the role of accommodation and concern for all peoples, for our planet and indeed for our survival. We live in a rapidly changing world. British Muslims are ordinary people with the same sorts of ambitions, frustrations, failures and successes as anybody else. We are just like you, go to work, pay taxes, obey the law and just want to get on with our everyday life. We are hated simply for following Islam.

According to labour’s Karen Buck, Muslims in Britain are now at the sharper end of race hatred and xenophobia. West has many stereotypes, misconceptions about Islam that are due to the media, prejudice and ignorance. Islam is often looked upon as an extremist, terrorist religion. To fight malaria, one does not shoot down mosquitoes, one drains the swamps.  Urgent government action is needed to tackle Islamophobia and “institutional disadvantages†suffered by British Muslim community. Now it has become widely accepted that, in Bernard Lewis’ words, “Europe will be Islamic by the end of the centuryâ€Â. The greater Islamist threat to the West is not violence-flattening buildings, bombing railroad stations and night clubs, seizing theaters and schools – but the peaceful, legal growth of power through education, the law, the media and the political system. 

Iftikhar Ahmad

158510[/snapback]

babylon spot on , what are you trying to acheive with that ?

[Thracian]

Forgive me if I found it hard to understand all the implications of that text.

However the call for government action to tackle "institutional disadvantages" relating to Muslims suggests something I have warned about on this forum before - making further concessions to the Muslim Community.

Youngsters won't remember but the securing of endless minor and then more important concessions was a major strategy of the Nazi's... and no-one in their right mind wants to go down that road again

I also recall talking to car workers who said that, at their factory in Coventry it doesn't matter what you give the Muslims, they always want more.

That is inevitable (but hardly desirable) given the fundamentalists' publicly declared intention to Islamify the world.

But looking at some regimes one might believe that giving a single inch to fundamentalist Islam is arguably a crime against humanity?"

Certainly one wonders if there is any limit to the fundamentalists' lust for power (despite greed and avarice being pretty sinful in my view) but I don't know if the above statement is justified.

On the one hand there seems to be a planned and concerted move to increase the influence of Islam within our society and one has to ask why?.

What have we done that is so evil as to require that we be Islamified and that our women might have to one day wear clothes which would prevent the sun ever shining on their flesh?.

Or that we should, once more be subject to religious fanaticism when Christian fundamentalism left such disgusting black chapters in our own history books.

I am aware, indeed have Muslim friends who are decent, polite, hard-working and quietly spiritual people.

Why won't they, therefore, do more to help defend us against the zealots among them, just as I would wish to do if Christian zealots were conducting another Inquisition and they were among the victims?.

Why won't the Muslim parents warn their children about the dangers of falling for hard-line indoctrination? How can Muslim parents (who would seek to spread their gospel among us) live with the thoughts that they failed to educate their own children well enough so as to avoid becoming fatally embroiled with fanatics?.

I feel for them to the bottom of my soul but I cannot understand them.

Indeed. why didn't more German parents warn their children about the influence of Nazi's? Was it because of pressure, because of fear or because they secretly sympathised and wanted to share any benefits.

And why, I ask, do so many Muslims give the impression that multi-culturalism works in one direction only.

Even at my golf club, while everyone else (of different creed and colour) mixes in at random, the Muslims choose to play together in their own group. It is the same in many mixed religion schools.

Are they afraid we'll be a bad influence or that their belief won't stand up to rational argument?. Or are their leaders afraid we'll be a "freeing of minds" influence and that their awesome power over these people will wain?

Why else would they spend so much time campaigning for Muslim-only schools and so much time emphasising and re-emphasising their religious and cultural obligations?.

We experienced it to some extent in the Victorian era with our CoE schools, our Sunday Church Services for everyone, our Sunday Schools and the constant classroom reference to the scriptures.

But, that approach, so strong 100 years ago, eroded to become negligible by the end of the 60's and we, meanwhile have become much more broad minded and tolerant of other beliefs and ways of life. Some would say it is to our cost but in the longer term it may be to our credit.

I wonder if, soon, the young Muslims too, if freed from the influence of those who would (sinfully) steal their minds, might turn away from hatred and start to embrace the true family of mankind by abandoning dogma and making their own positive contribution to multi-culturalism.

For this to happen of course, it will take brave young Muslims who might otherwise have been bombers to reject being brainwashed and instead take a much braver stance in the name of peace, mutual respect, harmony and understanding.

Why do I ask? Why do I even broach this far-reaching subject?.

Because it matters. Because I care and because further decades of hatred and unnecessary bloodshed will bring no joy to anyone.

Indeed it is high time the whole World started to grow up and to properly live in peace.

Otherwise there will be no world.

* PS If multiculturality "is not about integration but about plurality" why are groups of people forcibly seeking to convert people to Islam (and many others peacefully seeking converts through inter-racial marriage whereby children are required to be brought up as Muslims)?.

In my view using religion to gain power over people is just as detestable as using military force. Or would you not agree?

[Babylon]

Forgive me if I found it hard to understand all the implications of that text.

However the call for government action to tackle "institutional disadvantages" relating to Muslims suggests something I have warned about on this forum before - making further concessions to the Muslim Community.

Youngsters won't remember but the securing of endless minor and then more important concessions was a major strategy of the Nazi's... and no-one in their right mind wants to go down that road again

I also recall talking to car workers who said that, at their factory in Coventry it doesn't matter what you give the Muslims, they always want more.

That is inevitable (but hardly desirable) given the fundamentalists'  publicly declared intention to Islamify the world.

But looking at some regimes one might believe that giving a single inch to fundamentalist Islam is arguably a crime against humanity?"

Certainly one wonders if there is any limit to the fundamentalists'  lust for power (despite greed and avarice being pretty sinful in my view) but I don't know if the above statement is justified.

On the one hand there seems to be a planned and concerted move to increase the influence of Islam within our society and one has to ask why?.

What have we done that is so evil as to require that we be Islamified and that our women might have to one day wear clothes which would prevent the sun ever shining on their flesh?.

Or that we should, once more be subject to religious fanaticism when Christian fundamentalism left such disgusting black chapters in our own history books. 

I am aware, indeed have Muslim friends who are decent, polite, hard-working and quietly spiritual people.

Why won't they, therefore, do more to help defend us against the zealots among them, just as I would wish to do if Christian zealots were conducting another Inquisition and they were among the victims?.

Why won't the Muslim parents warn their children about the dangers of falling for hard-line indoctrination? How can Muslim parents (who would seek to spread their gospel among us) live with the thoughts that they failed to educate their own children well enough so as to avoid becoming fatally embroiled with fanatics?.

I feel for them to the bottom of my soul but I cannot understand them.

Indeed. why didn't more German parents warn their children about the influence of Nazi's? Was it  because of pressure,  because of fear or because they secretly sympathised and wanted to share any benefits.

And why, I ask, do so many Muslims give the impression that multi-culturalism works in one direction only.

Even at my golf club, while everyone else (of different creed and colour) mixes in at random, the Muslims choose to play together in their own group. It is the same in many mixed religion schools.

Are they afraid we'll be a bad influence or that their belief won't stand up to rational argument?. Or are their leaders afraid we'll be a "freeing of minds"  influence and that their awesome power over these people will wain?

Why else would they spend so much time campaigning for Muslim-only schools and so much time emphasising and re-emphasising their religious and cultural obligations?.

We experienced it to some extent in the Victorian era with our CoE schools, our Sunday Church Services for everyone, our Sunday Schools and the constant classroom reference to the scriptures.

But, that approach, so strong 100 years ago, eroded to become negligible by the end of the 60's and we, meanwhile  have become much more broad minded and tolerant of other beliefs and ways of life. Some would say it is to our cost but in the longer term it may be to our credit.

I wonder if, soon, the young Muslims too, if freed from the influence of those who would (sinfully) steal their minds,  might turn away from hatred and start to embrace the true family of mankind by abandoning dogma and making their own positive contribution to multi-culturalism.

For this to happen of course, it will take brave young Muslims who might otherwise have been bombers to reject being brainwashed and instead take a much braver stance in the name of peace, mutual respect, harmony and understanding.

Why do I ask? Why do I even broach this far-reaching subject?.

Because it matters. Because I care and because further decades of hatred and unnecessary bloodshed will bring no joy to anyone.

Indeed it is high time the whole World started to grow up and to properly live in peace.

Otherwise there will be no world.

* PS If multiculturality "is not about integration but about plurality" why are groups of people forcibly seeking to convert people to Islam (and many others peacefully seeking converts through inter-racial marriage whereby children are required to be brought up as Muslims)?.

In my view using religion to gain power over people is just as detestable as using military force. Or would you not agree?

158594[/snapback]

Wow, excellent post!!

[Guest]

Why oh why can't people get on with their own lives, and leave everyone else to get on with theirs?

As long as you don't hurt anyone else, either physically or mentally, you can believe whatever you want whether it be Christianity, Islam, or that god is in fact a purple elephant with power to levitate. I don't care!!! Just leave me alone to believe what I want to believe in peace!!!!

Thank you.

[Babylon]

Why oh why can't people get on with their own lives, and leave everyone else to get on with theirs?

As long as you don't hurt anyone else, either physically or mentally, you can believe whatever you want whether it be Christianity, Islam, or that god is in fact a purple elephant with power to levitate.  I don't care!!!  Just leave me alone to believe what I want to believe in peace!!!!

Thank you.

158760[/snapback]

Have we in the last 2000 years of recorded history ever been able to get on with our own lives without someone preaching to us or attempting to hurt us?

It'll never change.

[Guest]

Have we in the last 2000 years of recorded history ever been able to get on with our own lives without someone preaching to us or attempting to hurt us?

It'll never change.

158838[/snapback]

No. Surely it's about time things changed, but you're right it won't. We'll have to put up with "My god's bigger than your god" for eternity.

Doesn't make it right though.

[Babylon]

Doesn't make it right though.

158840[/snapback]

Very true.

[Ultra]

However the call for government action to tackle "institutional disadvantages" relating to Muslims suggests something I have warned about on this forum before - making further concessions to the Muslim Community.

And what concessions would these be?

Youngsters won't remember but the securing of endless minor and then more important concessions was a major strategy of the Nazi's... and no-one in their right mind wants to go down that road again

Implicit comparisons of Muslims with Nazis are despicable. This bigotry (for that is what it is) should not be tolerated ANYWHERE!

I also recall talking to car workers who said that, at their factory in Coventry it doesn't matter what you give the Muslims, they always want more.

Not too long ago, a lot of factory workers in Leicester used to say the same about Asians. Their views were ignorant and wrong then. They are still ignorant and wrong now.

That is inevitable (but hardly desirable) given the fundamentalists' publicly declared intention to Islamify the world.

But looking at some regimes one might believe that giving a single inch to fundamentalist Islam is arguably a crime against humanity?"

Don't make the classic mistake of confusing the fundamentalists with ALL Muslims.

That would be like saying Ian Paisley or Slobadan Milosevic (or even the Pope) speak for all Christians.

Why won't the Muslim parents warn their children about the dangers of falling for hard-line indoctrination? How can Muslim parents (who would seek to spread their gospel among us) live with the thoughts that they failed to educate their own children well enough so as to avoid becoming fatally embroiled with fanatics?.

You may as well ask why white "Christian" parents don't bring their kids up not to attack children of other faiths, or to treat them with tolerance and respect..

Indeed. why didn't more German parents warn their children about the influence of Nazi's? Was it because of pressure, because of fear or because they secretly sympathised and wanted to share any benefits.

Quite possibly, but let's not encourage the idea that belief in that particular evil creed was or indeed is exclusive to the Germans

Even at my golf club, while everyone else (of different creed and colour) mixes in at random, the Muslims choose to play together in their own group.

I'm amazed they wanted to join and play in the first place. Golf clubs aren't exactly renowned as beacons of diversity either here or in the USA.

It is the same in many mixed religion schools.

Are they afraid we'll be a bad influence or that their belief won't stand up to rational argument?. Or are their leaders afraid we'll be a "freeing of minds" influence and that their awesome power over these people will wane?

Why else would they spend so much time campaigning for Muslim-only schools and so much time emphasising and re-emphasising their religious and cultural obligations?.

They are not asking for any more rights than are given to the Catholic church (and in some places the C of E too)

We experienced it to some extent in the Victorian era with our CoE schools, our Sunday Church Services for everyone, our Sunday Schools and the constant classroom reference to the scriptures.

But, that approach, so strong 100 years ago, eroded to become negligible by the end of the 60's and we, meanwhile have become much more broad minded and tolerant of other beliefs and ways of life.

That's true in some places, but isn't universally the case in ALL parts of the UK..

The fact that David Davis, a potential future prime minister, is allowed to peddle prejudice and hate suggests we still have a long way to go even in this country.

I wonder if, soon, the young Muslims too, if freed from the influence of those who would (sinfully) steal their minds, might turn away from hatred and start to embrace the true family of mankind by abandoning dogma and making their own positive contribution to multi-culturalism.

And what about chav, child-beating scumbags in places like Oldham and Burnley whose minds are poisoned by the Sun and other gutter newspapers? Don't they have a role and a responsibilibity in this as well?

*PS If multiculturality "is not about integration but about plurality" why are groups of people forcibly seeking to convert people to Islam (and many others peacefully seeking converts through inter-racial marriage whereby children are required to be brought up as Muslims)?.

But what about those groups readily funded by the USA who seek to convert people to Christianity?

[lush]

Until the people of the islamic faith learn that their faith is not what everyones faith should be, then they`ll always be viewed as idiots.

Hardline football fans think the same, they think their football club is better, when infact all clubs are equal.

Its all about belief, you have to have the belief that you could be wrong, that you could be a better person.

[filbertway]

Until the people of the islamic faith learn that their faith is not what everyones faith should be, then they`ll always be viewed as idiots.

Hardline football fans think the same, they think their football club is better, when infact all clubs are equal.

Its all about belief, you have to have the belief that you could be wrong, that you could be a better person.

159106[/snapback]

oadby town and chelsea?

[Ultra]

Until the people of the islamic faith learn that their faith is not what everyones faith should be, then they`ll always be viewed as idiots.

I could say the same about prejudiced white chav bigots.

In fact, I just have!

[lush]

oadby town and chelsea?

159136[/snapback]

There both football clubs.

Are you suggesting that Islam is better/bigger than christianity?

[lush]

I could say the same about prejudiced white chav bigots.

In fact, I just have! 

159138[/snapback]

That make you a bigot then

[Thracian]

And what concessions would these be?

Implicit comparisons of Muslims with Nazis are despicable.  This bigotry (for that is what it is) should not be tolerated ANYWHERE!      

Not too long ago, a lot of factory workers in Leicester used to say the same about Asians.  Their views were ignorant and wrong then.  They are still ignorant and wrong now.

Don't make the classic mistake of confusing the fundamentalists with ALL Muslims.

That would be like saying Ian Paisley or Slobadan Milosevic (or even the Pope) speak for all Christians.

You may as well ask why white "Christian" parents don't bring their kids up not to attack children of other faiths, or to treat them with tolerance and respect..

Quite possibly, but let's not encourage the idea that belief in that particular evil creed was or indeed is exclusive to the Germans

I'm amazed they wanted to join and play in the first place.  Golf clubs aren't exactly renowned as beacons of diversity either here or in the USA.

They are not asking for any more rights than are given to the Catholic church (and in some places the C of E too)

That's true in some places, but isn't universally the case in ALL parts of the UK..

The fact that David Davis, a potential future prime minister, is allowed to peddle prejudice and hate suggests we still have a long way to go even in this country.

And what about chav, child-beating scumbags in places like Oldham and Burnley whose minds are poisoned by the Sun and other gutter newspapers?  Don't they have a role and a responsibilibity in this as well?

But what about those groups readily funded by the USA who seek to convert people to Christianity?

158890[/snapback]

You're certainly quick to put labels on people (whether justified or not) and you've cleverly played the politician's trick of avoiding answering any of the questions raised here by asking questions in return.

Do you deny that outrageous crimes against mankind have and are being committed in some fundamentalist Muslim states? And that there are dragonian laws and draconian punishments in other Muslim states?.

Well the fact that I don't want that here and that I compared the WAY power is being won towards this end with the way the Nazi's did it in the past is just that - a comparison of tactics.

To that end the comparison is not despicable. It is the truth. Furthermore because I don't want that sort of Government in the UK does not mean I'm a bigot it means that I want this country to remain a decent place to live. Do you not care about that?

If the truth is known you sound like much more of a racist than almost anyone else I've come across on this site ("what about the chav child-beating scumbags of Oldham and Burnley...".

I wouldn't defend any child harmer (be they white folk who harm their bodies or Muslim clerics who harm their minds) but you seem to despise white people and everything they supposedly stand for in your eyes because your conclusions seem to be warped by your obviously passionate (dare one say bigoted) beliefs.

The problem is you publicise your false conclusions presumably believing them to be correct and that has to be challenged.

For instance I did not mistake fundamentalist Muslims for ordinary everyday Muslims otherwise I would not have used the word fundamentalist.

Secondly you implied that I would not ask that white Christian parents bring their children up to be tolerant of others etc and that I would somehow condone Christian

missionary efforts to win over converts.

Neither suggestion is true. I believe all people should behave decently towards others and I don't believe any religion should be pushing their beliefs down other people's throats.

It is diabolical to fill young people's minds with dogma and even more diabolical if it's done with the purpose of gaining power over them. Or don't you think so?.

Instead of deflecting conversation away from the issues by asking counterbalance questions who don't you give some straight answers.

Is there a concerted effort being made in this country to expand the influence of Islam through education, the media and through the machinations of Government. If not say so if not say why?

Is it not the height of hypocrisy for Muslim clerics and some of their associates to preach hatred in a country where they draw benefits and are so often offered quality medical treatment? Is there any reason why these arguably treasonous rantings should be tolerated.

Do ordinary Muslim parents warn their children about the dangers of being influenced and corrupted by the hate messages? If not, why not. Never mind what others do I asked about Muslim parents.

How can devout Muslim parents fail to recognise when the minds of their offspring are being poisoned? And why would they not do anything about it? As a father that seems incomprehensible to me so please explain or tell me that they detest the fundamentalists as much as the rest of us.

Is it true that many Muslim people avoid social intercourse with other faiths (and especially the Christian) because they believe them to be a corrupting influence or because their leaders believe they might have less power over them if they become "westernised"? Or do they really want to fully integrate. Please tell me.

You are quick to point the finger of racism at white people. Are you suggesting that Muslims all think white folk are wonderful and don't harbour any prejudice whatsoever?

For the record I was the first person to pick a black man in our football team of the 60's and I had a lovely Muslim girlfriend for two years so please don't suggest that I might be racist (cos again, you would be wrong).

Can you tell me if it is written that Muslims should make every effort to make converts to their religion and do you think this is justified?

I would not dream of seeking to convert you or anyone else to Christianity though I do believe loosely in Christian values. Does that make me more respectful of your beliefs than vice-versa? Please explain.

Finally, cos you didn't answer but again deflected away from the question:

Why are gangs of people in the UK seeking to forcibly convert people to Islam and why are others doing so legally through inter-racial marriage where they insist on bringing up children as Muslims, if they are not seeking to advance Islamic power and influence?

You mentioned American Christian groups seeking converts (and I wouldn't dream of condoning their actions) but please answer the question. Is it a movement that will threaten the stability of this country or not?

Before I finish ask yourself this. You obviously hold a torch for anti-racism and I respect that unreservedly.

However, would you not be concerned, even horrified, if someone, like the Nazi's, denied you the right to be anti-racist and insisted you must hate the Jews?.

If the answer is yes can you now understand why so many of us are concerned about the increasing imposition on our lives of Islamic fundamentalism? It never existed at all in the past as far as this island was concerned.

We don't want a cultural takeover of the UK be it by Muslims, Rastafarians, Moonies or Nazi's. We like our green, pleasant and generally tolerant land with its fairly free right to expression and its reasonable and fairly sympathetic laws. Can you not understand that.

PS Bigot: Obstinate and intolerant believer in a religion, political theory etc. dogmatist, narrow-minded uncompromising, inflexible, rigid, biased etc, etc.

I don't believe that I am a bigot in any way judging by the dictoionary definition but it sure as hell defines a lot of clerics whose words I have read and listened to. Or don't you agree?

[Guest]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam have the same god. They come from the same origin, and all use the Old Testament, only Jews ignore the New Testament.

[FNQ]

[Guest]

159226[/snapback]

[Ultra]

Thracian, you are digging yourself into an even deeper hole. You're not doing yourself ANY favours by using arguments that could have been lifted wholesale from the BNP website.

By singling out Islam and its followers for repeated attack you are assuming that all other creeds are always and by definition somehow superior.

And scaremongering about the possibility of an Islamic government in the UK (which is NOT going to happen any time in the next millennium) is irresponsible and dangerous.

If you think that I "despise white people" simply because I acknowledge the existence of anti-social elements, then you're the one guilty of stereotyping.

[Thracian]

Thracian, you are digging yourself into an even deeper hole. You're not doing yourself ANY favours by using arguments that could have been lifted wholesale from the BNP website.

By singling out Islam and its followers for repeated attack you are assuming that all other creeds are always and by definition somehow superior. 

And scaremongering about the possibility of an Islamic government in the UK (which is NOT going to happen any time in the next millennium) is irresponsible and dangerous.

If you think that I "despise white people" simply because I acknowledge the existence of anti-social elements, then you're the one guilty of stereotyping.

159296[/snapback]

As I expected. No answers to the questions. Just a crude attempt to somehow link my views with those of the BNP an organisation whose websites I have, in fact, never looked at in my life. Nor would I have reason to look at them.

Furthermore my concerns definitively relate to the influence of Fundamentalists within the Muslim community (I thought that was clear too) whose respect for human life is akin to the Romans of Jesus' time when the crucified were lined up on the Appian Way.

That you would apparently refuse to condemn the sort of undiluted hatred which emanates from such people probably says more about you than me.

However I would wish you good luck with your anti-racist stance and hope that you have the courage and fairness to oppose it wherever it appears (and perhaps starting with the clerics I have mentioned).

You see my conscience is clear. I KNOW that I'm not racist. You might try to honestly examining your inner feelings on the subject.

Try, perhaps for the first time in your life, examining the injustice suffered by whites in this country (like having to wait longer to join the police force, like being denied jobs out of political expedience etc).

I'm all for a fair and tolerant society. But not if some are treated more fairly than others to quote from George Orwell.

[Ultra]

How do you reconcile this statement

I KNOW that I'm not racist.

...with the sentiments you express in the next paragraph?

Try, perhaps for the first time in your life, examining the injustice suffered by whites in this country (like having to wait longer to join the police force, like being denied jobs out of political expedience etc).

The fact that you choose to focus on the small minority of instances (perhaps 5% at the VERY most) where white people suffer what may be perceived to be racially influenced disadvantage, while completely ignoring the 95% of cases that go the other way says plenty about you, little of it pleasant.

You are as guilty of trying to poison minds as those preachers you condemn.

Maybe you're the one who needs to rethink your attitudes.

[Thracian]

How do you reconcile this statement

...with the sentiments you express in the next paragraph?

The fact that you choose to focus on the small minority of instances (perhaps 5% at the VERY most) where white people suffer what may be perceived to be racially influenced disadvantage, while completely ignoring the 95% of cases that go the other way says plenty about you, little of it pleasant.

You are as guilty of trying to poison minds as those preachers you condemn.

Maybe you're the one who needs to rethink your attitudes.

159349[/snapback]

There you go again ... drawing false conclusions. I thought the idea of anti-racist campaigning was to oppose ALL racism not all but five per cent.

I don't "ignore" anything as you put it. I don't agree with racism, full stop. And if five per cent of the white population suffer because of it that is a lot of people and no more acceptable that if anyone else were the victims (whatever the per centage).

[lush]

The fact that David Davis, a potential future prime minister, is allowed to peddle prejudice and hate suggests we still have a long way to go even in this country.

And what about chav, child-beating scumbags in places like Oldham and Burnley whose minds are poisoned by the Sun and other gutter newspapers?

158890[/snapback]

`peddle prejudice and hate`?

`minds are poisoned by the Sun`?

[lush]

And scaremongering about the possibility of an Islamic government in the UK (which is NOT going to happen any time in the next millennium) is irresponsible and dangerous.

If you think that I "despise white people" simply because I acknowledge the existence of anti-social elements, then you're the one guilty of stereotyping.

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`is irresponsible and dangerous.`, why is it irresponsible? Is it because an Islamic state is something the majority of britons dont want, surely its a good thing to let folk know about it?

`dangerous`, is a islamic government a bad thing then?