Thracian Posted 24 August 2005 Posted 24 August 2005 Just wondered what's the forum's view of the Animal Rights victory over the hamster farmers in Staffordshire. Is it a victory for those who want to see an end to cruelty against animals (ie medical testing). Or is it a victory for anarchy considering that the farmer's were not breaking the law?. And what about the Police role. The animal rights protests, over 15 years, went much further than parading banners outside the property entrance and distributing leaflets seeking to persuade people not to do business there etc. CCTV shows the throwing of missiles at the premises and there were other examples of threatening behaviour and obnoxious actions. Were those people doing something similar outside the Prime Minister's house, the home of the regional police chief or MP's etc would the Police have been so lenient and slow to deal with the matter? Or did they do their best with the crime aspects but also refuse to take sides? I am also left with one final thought. All of those protesters presumably have partners/families/mothers/fathers/children etc. If after 15 years the farmer (and perhaps his workers) reacted by purchasing fast-action automatic weopons and gunned the protesters down out of frustration, would the Police have considered their softly softly action justified, would the protesters families have considered it all worth it and would the farmers have been arrested for defending the criminal actions against their home and livelihood?. As it happens I cannot abide cruelty to animals but if the actions of the farmer selling his stock on for medical research WAS cruel then why is that not enshrined in law?. Is it because all farming-of-animal businesses might be considered cruel and then we'd all have to resort to being vegetarians?. Then someone would bring up the point that plants have feelings and we would have to develop synthetic pills to feed on. Anyway, what is the forum's view?
john_lcfc Posted 24 August 2005 Posted 24 August 2005 i saw a programme about it and although the methods the animal extremists use are a bit over the top i am glad to see the guinea pig farm closed
Katy Posted 24 August 2005 Posted 24 August 2005 Digging up the mother-in-laws remains (allegedly) to make a point is truly shocking in its self.
Benji Posted 24 August 2005 Posted 24 August 2005 hmm... well firstly i agree that all kind of animal cruelty is wrong. However, there are times when the course of survival depends on the research. With the exception of these kind of injections into an animal head for no reason, they can benefit ourselves. Not only economically from the scientists involvement, but for medical research, besides, if we don't do it, another country will, i know two wrongs don't make a right but this is a fact. Let's say an animal is used to test the effect of cancer treatment. This proves a success and in the future, one of the protestors relatives have this disease, do you think they would think twice about where/how this treatment has come about? No chance. It is quite funny how these people, like the guy on the news, comes on in his jeans and stylish top, i wonder if he considers the child labour occuring in Developing countries that allows him to wear that shirt? I wonder if they shampoo their hair? Clean their house? At the end of the day these things come from animal testing a lot of the time. It seems these extemists are sick minded and are selective in their protesting. They look only to gain by illegal means and are a waste of our air. You can only hope they have the deceny to take back the remains of the body. I really cannot find a saving grace for the extremists, otherwise what the farm were doing would be illegal.
stez Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 hmm...well firstly i agree that all kind of animal cruelty is wrong. However, there are times when the course of survival depends on the research. With the exception of these kind of injections into an animal head for no reason, they can benefit ourselves. Not only economically from the scientists involvement, but for medical research, besides, if we don't do it, another country will, i know two wrongs don't make a right but this is a fact. Let's say an animal is used to test the effect of cancer treatment. This proves a success and in the future, one of the protestors relatives have this disease, do you think they would think twice about where/how this treatment has come about? No chance. It is quite funny how these people, like the guy on the news, comes on in his jeans and stylish top, i wonder if he considers the child labour occuring in Developing countries that allows him to wear that shirt? I wonder if they shampoo their hair? Clean their house? At the end of the day these things come from animal testing a lot of the time. It seems these extemists are sick minded and are selective in their protesting. They look only to gain by illegal means and are a waste of our air. You can only hope they have the deceny to take back the remains of the body. I really cannot find a saving grace for the extremists, otherwise what the farm were doing would be illegal. 162814[/snapback] agreed life is never as simple as some people would like us to believe it is
Guest Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 I might not be a pet lover, but I do abhor any cruelty to animals. I don't agree with animal testing, there are other means of testing drugs, cosmetics etc. However I also don't agree with the methods the extremists use to get their point across. As with all extremists, whether fighting against religion, vivisection whatever, they are no more than bullies.
Janx Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 I might not be a pet lover, but I do abhor any cruelty to animals. I don't agree with animal testing, there are other means of testing drugs, cosmetics etc. However I also don't agree with the methods the extremists use to get their point across. As with all extremists, whether fighting against religion, vivisection whatever, they are no more than bullies. 163274[/snapback] DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED!!! I am surprised that our namby pamby drug taking sickly population would have ANYTHING against testing on animals for medical research... THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE.... Having worked in the field for a couple of years and my wife is still and has been for 15 years, I feel completely able to comment on it. Whilst human volunteers are next in the chain to have drugs administered on them in clinical trials, they still have NO other way to reach toxicity levels without the use of animals, captive bread animals. Whilst I agree it is a shame, its about time people grew up, smelt the coffee and stopped looking for some hippy utopian outcome. If we didnt do any testing on animals, the medical world would grind to a halt, further amazing discoveries would stop and medication from the simplest asthma inhalor and painkillers to breakthroughs in cancer and tumours would never have been achieved and no progress would be made. I find it amazing that people have not got the basic understanding of this before they start digging up graves, persecuting and harrassing, and committing acts of violence on innocent lives. FYI Guinea Pigs as an example have pretty much single handedly help us deal with many Asthma and breathing related illnesses. Oh and these animals are captive bread, so if some berk starts stating that "he heard someone was nicking dogs of his estate" or "bringing chimps over from the jungle" FORGET IT!
Thracian Posted 25 August 2005 Author Posted 25 August 2005 Not much sympathy for the animal rights activists on the thread so far so why have the police allowed these people to so brazenly break the law?
Katy Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 Not much sympathy for the animal rights activists on the thread so far so why have the police allowed these people to so brazenly break the law? 163278[/snapback] Because the people who the crime is against are always made out to be in the wrong. I am a vegetarian through choice and I despise cruelty to aminals BUT I am old enough and wise enough to appreciate that until there is a suitable alternative to animal testing this is how its going to be and I would rather have an animal tested on to save a loved one or friends life than not, harsh as that may sound.
Hullfox Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 Well said Janx. I don't know whether these people are actually well intentioned or not but do they conduct their lives in such a way that no part of it benefits from experimentation of some sort on animals? I doubt it very much. It would be quite interesting to see how these people would react to; a) Treatment being withdrawn from a loved one who was benefitting from such experimentation and actually seeing them physically deteriorating. b) Having their own lives ruled by mob force and intimidation.
Dunc Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 Apparently they argue a guinea pigs life is as important as a humans. Not in my world its not. Oi Hippies, go and eat your mung bean stew and do one, you long haired, grave digging freaks!
Guest Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED!!!I am surprised that our namby pamby drug taking sickly population would have ANYTHING against testing on animals for medical research... THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE.... Having worked in the field for a couple of years and my wife is still and has been for 15 years, I feel completely able to comment on it. Whilst human volunteers are next in the chain to have drugs administered on them in clinical trials, they still have NO other way to reach toxicity levels without the use of animals, captive bread animals. Whilst I agree it is a shame, its about time people grew up, smelt the coffee and stopped looking for some hippy utopian outcome. If we didnt do any testing on animals, the medical world would grind to a halt, further amazing discoveries would stop and medication from the simplest asthma inhalor and painkillers to breakthroughs in cancer and tumours would never have been achieved and no progress would be made. I find it amazing that people have not got the basic understanding of this before they start digging up graves, persecuting and harrassing, and committing acts of violence on innocent lives. FYI Guinea Pigs as an example have pretty much single handedly help us deal with many Asthma and breathing related illnesses. Oh and these animals are captive bread, so if some berk starts stating that "he heard someone was nicking dogs of his estate" or "bringing chimps over from the jungle" FORGET IT! 163276[/snapback] It's the principle that we as a species have the right to do what we want to whom we want when we want that gets me. Call me a namby-pamby leaving in a dreamworld all you like, but what gives us the right to treat this planet and those that live on it the way we do? Yours sincerely, Your car-driving, meat-eating chum
Janx Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 It's the principle that we as a species have the right to do what we want to whom we want when we want that gets me. Call me a namby-pamby leaving in a dreamworld all you like, but what gives us the right to treat this planet and those that live on it the way we do?Yours sincerely, Your car-driving, meat-eating chum 163294[/snapback] one word.... Natural selection!
Hullfox Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 one word....Natural selection! 163304[/snapback] That's two.
Janx Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 That's two. 163311[/snapback] you dont know me vewwy well do ye?
Benji Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 one word....Natural selection! 163304[/snapback] indeed, as darwin says, survival of the fittest. We wouldn't be here today without taking that path.
Hullfox Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 indeed, as darwin says, survival of the fittest. We wouldn't be here today without taking that path. 163321[/snapback] Ahh that's where Darwin was wrong. It's survival of those most acceptable to change. Discuss.......................
Guest Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 That's two. 163311[/snapback] You stole my thunder!
breadandcheese Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 Animal rights protestors really annoy me. Because of them, we no longer have monkey tea parties at the zoo. It used to be great, the nice monkeys dressing up in their sunday best, bow ties, etc, having a nice cup of tie and a cream bun with their mates. Sounds like the life to me. Now the animal rights lot want to take away medical development as well. I heard a scientist talk on the news last night. He said that without animal testing, we would not have produced a single vaccine.
Janx Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 Animal rights protestors really annoy me.Because of them, we no longer have monkey tea parties at the zoo. It used to be great, the nice monkeys dressing up in their sunday best, bow ties, etc, having a nice cup of tie and a cream bun with their mates. Sounds like the life to me. Now the animal rights lot want to take away medical development as well. I heard a scientist talk on the news last night. He said that without animal testing, we would not have produced a single vaccine. 163367[/snapback] funny... to be fair I wouldn't mind animal rights protesting to ban that stuff... Although I am sure Molly Badham would be disappointed.... *shows age* Anyone else remember Molly, a Blue Peter badge to all those that do!!
Katy Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 funny... to be fair I wouldn't mind animal rights protesting to ban that stuff... Although I am sure Molly Badham would be disappointed.... *shows age*Anyone else remember Molly, a Blue Peter badge to all those that do!! 163369[/snapback] Molly is no longer with us so its irrelevant Janks
Janx Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 Molly is no longer with us so its irrelevant Janks 163372[/snapback] ah well she would have been about 960 if she was, she was about 86 when I wathed her chimpy antics! But did you google or know it Katy?
Katy Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 ah well she would have been about 960 if she was, she was about 86 when I wathed her chimpy antics!But did you google or know it Katy? 163374[/snapback] I heard it on Central News ages ago, Ill have a google for the exact facts if you're interested?
Janx Posted 25 August 2005 Posted 25 August 2005 I heard it on Central News ages ago, Ill have a google for the exact facts if you're interested? 163375[/snapback] thats OK, got some work to do for an hour or so, and to be fair.... in the words of Catherine Tate "do i look bovvered, am i bovvered doh? face, look, bovvered, face, look, bovvered!!"
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