Do you speak up?

[foxes_fan]

A topic arose on The Wright Stuff this morning about speaking up to people who make bigot/racist/homophobic remarks. I decided to post this here as it's quite an interesting topic which has affected me in the past.

Say if you was in the pub and you over hear someone making racist remarks, do you speak up and say something? Or do you just keep in quiet?

It's quite a hard dilemma seeing as you'd be concerned on the outcome. I remember one of my mates dad's saying he punched someone in a bar for making some joke/remark about 9/11.

I've heard my Grandma say racist things in the past, but I've never said anything against it because of the fact that my parents have been there, making it very awkward to speak up. My friends have said the same about their elders, I guess it's just the way they were brought up compared to us.

So yeah - Speak up or keep quiet?

[john_lcfc]

not worth the hassle unless there planning something bad.. if you hear someone in the pub using dodgy words ( we all know what they are) its not worth worrying about you will prbably just get a smack. my opinion and what i would honestly do anyway doesnt make it right

[cisono]

not worth the hassle unless there planning something bad.. if you hear someone in the pub using dodgy words ( we all know what they are) its not worth worrying about you will prbably just get a smack. my opinion and what i would honestly do anyway doesnt make it right

True.

Having said that, if it is your grandparents saying something racist, you should be ok objecting to it in a polite manner.

PS: I accept no responsibility should your grandma slap you though!!!

[Babylon]

Depnds if what they were saying was actually to somebody. If it's a private conversation then it's none of my business. They can say what they want. If someone said something directly to me and I objected to what was said I would.

We have all used racist words before, doesn't mean you are racist though. eg. someone cuts you up while driving. I've called someone a P****, doesn't mean I hate them though. If the person is fat i'll call them a fat b******. People can say that's right or wrong, I don't care 'm just being honest.

[Stuliasz]

My Grandma has really been letting rip on various issues she has with immigration over the past month or two so we've just been taking the mick out of her for it to let her know its not right without causing any hassle.

[Scarby]

it must be hard for the older generation of today living in this environment where fecking kids seem to think they rule the place!!

there is no respect today at all.

[Guest]

Like others say, it depends in what context things are heard. I have actually heard City fans racially abusing opposition players and turned round and told them to shut up before now. I've had a couple of nasty arguments over it before now. So I guess I do speak up about it, if the truth be told.

[Thracian]

A topic arose on The Wright Stuff this morning about speaking up to people who make bigot/racist/homophobic remarks. I decided to post this here as it's quite an interesting topic which has affected me in the past.

Say if you was in the pub and you over hear someone making racist remarks, do you speak up and say something? Or do you just keep in quiet?

It's quite a hard dilemma seeing as you'd be concerned on the outcome. I remember one of my mates dad's saying he punched someone in a bar for making some joke/remark about 9/11.

I've heard my Grandma say racist things in the past, but I've never said anything against it because of the fact that my parents have been there, making it very awkward to speak up. My friends have said the same about their elders, I guess it's just the way they were brought up compared to us.

So yeah - Speak up or keep quiet?

Most young people have been educated/brainwashed at school into having a non racist/non critical attitude to foreigners and a non judgemental attitude towards people who have different preferences/beliefs/etc to themselves. Yet the politically correct are judgemental against the racists/bigots et al. Hypocritical bullshit and state-encouraged mind control of course. People earn respect. People of other colours and creeds EARN respect.

It's like watching your football team. The huge majority of fans don't decide they like/loathe a guy because he's black/gay/talks with a lisp. They like/loathe him because of what he does and how he is on the pitch.

Emile Heskey (a black guy), Muzzy Issett (Turkish), David Gibson (Scottish) are among my favourite City footballers. Do you think I give a toss what their colour/religion/sexual preferences are?.

Of course not. They earned my admiration cos of what they did and how they did it. They are the very best kind of ambassadors for anti-racism/multi-culturalism etc, not enforced indoctrination.

Like I say, people earn respect by their actions and attitudes. But others don't. And if I want to lambast the Muslim clerics/fanatics/fundamentalists who preach their endless hatred, the paedophiles who destroy childrens lives, anyone else who mis-uses their "preferences/beliefs" etc IN AN IRRESPONSIBLE/ANTI-SOCIAL WAY then by what right have you or some teacher/politician to tell me I am wrong.

It doesn't mean I hate all Muslims/people who fancy kids/homosexuals etc.

Are you truthfully saying you have no opinions at all that might be viewed as phobic/anti-something-or-another? Judge not that you be not judged I think it says in the Bible.

In other words live your life to the standard you would set for yourself and leave others to live theirs. If your standards impress other people they may respect you enough to be influenced. But don't put yourself up as God. I've not met any saints in my long life believe me.

As for your Grandma. What the hell, in your short and presumably inconsequential life, gives you the right to dismiss her views so damningly?. Where were you during the Second World War, for instance? Not born I imagine and certainly not anywhere near as close to it as your grandmother I'd warrant.

My family lost over 60 sons and brothers and fathers to the Germans during World War 11 (and more during World War 1 when we looked back). Do you think that endears me to Germans? Do you think reading about the holocaust endears me to Germans? Have you read about it?

Well if you haven't for God sake read it and see how your youthful judgements stand up afterwards. I'd have been ashamed to the point of despair had I been German and how anyone close to those victims could forgive and forget is remarkable but some did (and some didn't).

No, it didn't make me hate all Germans. I have stayed with families in Germany and found them both pleasant and hospitable. But nor would I condemn people who were a lot more closely involved with that event than I was for remaining hateful.

Finally, I hope the friend of your dad wouldn't complain if the guy he hit replied with interest. And is that reactionary bully/yob better than the racist? You wanna start doing some real thinking for yourself, get some real experience of life and stop letting teachers etc aggle your mind.

It's a thing about teachers. Many of them have done nothing, been nothing. They've just been to college

and have then presumed they are qualified to tell other people what's right and wrong. Yet you should see em/hear em when their jobs are under threat from non-qualified helpers etc. They are not so reasonable and magnanimous then - they get quite phobic in fact.

In other words when they get something to rail against, something that effects them, they are not nearly so tolerant as they would ask you to be. And so it is the world over about all things.

Take my advice in pubs. Don't listen in on other people's conversations but if you do, ignore them and move away if you are uncomfortable. It's safer, you will only antagonise rather than doing some good if you intervene, you are not judge and jury to the opinions of the nation's tipplers and as likely as not your drink will get spilled.

[Katy]

Continuing on from what Thracian has just said, I watched a film a few years ago called Malcolm X about a black guy who advocated black power and was against racial integration and equality, he despised white people due to black slavery a generation before. After one of his speeches a white student approaches him and said something along the lines of 'I appreciate what you are trying to do and I apologise for what my fore fathers did to you' or something along those lines, he looks at her like she is the scum of the earth, and walks away.

To be fair ive heard more people being abused for being 'fat'/wearing glasses/having the 'wrong' kind of trainers etc, where do you draw the line? Its still victimisation regardless of colour etc are you going to speak up for them too?

My parents brought me up to respect people whatever the colour of their skin and religion, however my grandad was mown down a few years ago at a pelican crossing by an asian guy, my dad now takes a very dim view of all asians which im ashamed to say, its not really fair is it? I often think what would have happened if a white person had knocked him over, would my dad dislike all white skinned people?

[davieG]

Continuing on from what Thracian has just said, I watched a film a few years ago called Malcolm X about a black guy who advocated black power and was against racial integration and equality, he despised white people due to black slavery a generation before. After one of his speeches a white student approaches him and said something along the lines of 'I appreciate what you are trying to do and I apologise for what my fore fathers did to you' or something along those lines, he looks at her like she is the scum of the earth, and walks away.

To be fair ive heard more people being abused for being 'fat'/wearing glasses/having the 'wrong' kind of trainers etc, where do you draw the line? Its still victimisation regardless of colour etc are you going to speak up for them too?

My parents brought me up to respect people whatever the colour of their skin and religion, however my grandad was mown down a few years ago at a pelican crossing by an asian guy, my dad now takes a very dim view of all asians which im ashamed to say, its not really fair is it? I often think what would have happened if a white person had knocked him over, would my dad dislike all white skinned people?

Not wishing to be critical of your grandad as I fully understand his reaction, see later comments but I think some would say that's what racisms is all about, the chances are that if it had been a white person who knocked over your grandad he MAY have noticed something else about them e.g, fat, short, glasses, bald, female, skinhead, hippie, gypo, kid etc generally sonething he isn't but with the Asian guy all he saw was Asian again something he isn't. I don't know how old your grandad is but my father-in-law is in his 80's now he's not racist, in fact he's an all around very sweet guy, if your grandad is around that age then some perspective is needed by those younger than them as he, my father in law pointed out to me when he was a young guy, born and bread in Leicester he can remember seeing his first Black/Asian person and without the aid of TV etc in those days you could say it was a bit of a shock to the system. I believe this gives some older people a different perspective and a degree of fear that is still present in their minds. Hating someone is also a bit of a defence system and allows people to divert pain and bad memories onto someone/place else. Rambling a bit now hope that makes sense and I hope it hasn't offended anyone, I guess it's just my mind trying to make sense of some of the contributing factors of life today - simple it aint

[Katy]

[/b]Not wishing to be critical of your grandad as I fully understand his reaction, see later comments but I think some would say that's what racisms is all about, the chances are that if it had been a white person who knocked over your grandad he MAY have noticed something else about them e.g, fat, short, glasses, bald, female, skinhead, hippie, gypo, kid etc generally sonething he isn't but with the Asian guy all he saw was Asian again something he isn't. I don't know how old your grandad is but my father-in-law is in his 80's now he's not racist, in fact he's an all around very sweet guy, if your grandad is around that age then some perspective is needed by those younger than them as he, my father in law pointed out to me when he was a young guy, born and bread in Leicester he can remember seeing his first Black/Asian person and without the aid of TV etc in those days you could say it was a bit of a shock to the system. I believe this gives some older people a different perspective and a degree of fear that is still present in their minds. Hating someone is also a bit of a defence system and allows people to divert pain and bad memories onto someone/place else. Rambling a bit now hope that makes sense and I hope it hasn't offended anyone, I guess it's just my mind trying to make sense of some of the contributing factors of life today - simple it aint

My grandad died as a result of being run over its my dad that has a problem with asian people im sorry I should have made that a bit clearer.

[davieG]

My grandad died as a result of being run over its my dad that has a problem with asian people im sorry I should have made that a bit clearer.

No it was clear enough I mis-read it, my apologies. It makes me very sad to hear about your grandadand it does makes the situation even more understandable as I say it's not simple, despite my attempts to make it sound simple, horrible things happen in life and we all have to find our own way of dealing with it.

[Katy]

No it was clear enough I mis-read it, my apologies. It makes me very sad to hear about your grandadand it does makes the situation even more understandable as I say it's not simple, despite my attempts to make it sound simple, horrible things happen in life and we all have to find our own way of dealing with it.

Its ok, it happened on Christmas eve 1991 so it was a bit horrible but its interesting what you said about older people not being 'used' to seeing people other than whites, as I said my dad had brought me up to 'do to others as you would like done to you' but he was 47 when that happened so that thats old and hes 61 (tomorrow) now and his attitude upsets me, I can understand it in a way but I still think its unacceptable to tar people with the same brush.

[rossporterlc]

i tend to stay quiet, if i feel that people should be non-racist then that is my opinion and i do believe people should be allowed to speak their mind even if it goes against my beliefs

[Thracian]

Continuing on from what Thracian has just said, I watched a film a few years ago called Malcolm X about a black guy who advocated black power and was against racial integration and equality, he despised white people due to black slavery a generation before. After one of his speeches a white student approaches him and said something along the lines of 'I appreciate what you are trying to do and I apologise for what my fore fathers did to you' or something along those lines, he looks at her like she is the scum of the earth, and walks away.

To be fair ive heard more people being abused for being 'fat'/wearing glasses/having the 'wrong' kind of trainers etc, where do you draw the line? Its still victimisation regardless of colour etc are you going to speak up for them too?

My parents brought me up to respect people whatever the colour of their skin and religion, however my grandad was mown down a few years ago at a pelican crossing by an asian guy, my dad now takes a very dim view of all asians which im ashamed to say, its not really fair is it? I often think what would have happened if a white person had knocked him over, would my dad dislike all white skinned people?

If you act in the way that your parents brought you up you'll do far more for inter-racial relations than all the pontificators from the PC brigades.

We ALL get abused by people at some time or another - whether it be the opposition fans, the parking warden after he's just slapped a ticket on your windscreen or the (expletive) scumbag who's just cut you up in his car.

It means nothing of consequence - no more than a joke about the Irish or about Mother-in-Laws. It's just that there's some folk want to make themseves important by pretending it does mean something.

Indeed one of the highlights of my week sometimes is playing golf with a few Asian market traders - and telling jokes against each others nationality. That's real integration in my view. When people can be themselves and be appreciated for what they are, not what someone wants them to be.

Respect is a big, big thing. Treat people politely and as you would wish to be treated yourself and even the firmest barriers come down pretty quickly.

Nowhere is that better illustrated than in sports of all kinds and football in particular.

[Rincewind]

I usually keep quiet. Except when behind a PC you may say. I have drinking mates who despite being law-abiding and decent blokes are somewhat biased. Theres sometimes half a dozen of us together and one is on about what one non-white family done or how the newspaper has reported a hidden terrorist cell in a Leicester Mosque. I can never think of a good counter-argument at the time. They are mainly in their late 50's and early sixties and often remark how Leiicester's changed and they can remember the first Indian restaurant and such like. One even admits to being racist and laughs about it. As somebody says they have old beliefs and were brought up this way. I wear specs and that was a subject of jokes sometimes at school so I have tried never to make fun of other people because they are different. Being a loner I have more time to think about things and hope I never jump to conclusions when I see a controversal headline. I think 'Well this headline is meant to shock and cause reaction, the story is meant to do the same, so is there another angle to it? Another point of view which contradicts the headline and story?

A PS

A few years ago when I was in the hosiery I remember a sheet of paper being pased around the room. I forget what exactly it was but it was a picture I think of an Asian bloke. Well everybody was laughing at it before it got to me. I just didn't find it funny. It was a straightfororward racist joke. I screwed it up and threw it in the bin. I think I may have been the only one who thoug so or everybody else went with the flow.

Don't get me wrong I have laughed at a lot of Irish/Scottish etc jokes but there is a limit.

[Cat Burger]

Me and two mates got started on and abused by ten asian lads in Maryland chicken last night for being racist, when my friend said "We're all living wasted lives". I didn't even care, I was so impressed with our anti-fear. They were shouting and spitting chicken in our faces.

[Thracian]

Had it been you three doing the bullying/spitting etc you'd have ended up on the front page of the local papers with the anti-racist boys calling you every name under the Sun. As it is - just another day at the takeaway. No wonder the old timers shake their heads.

Ten-against-three. Are you sure they weren't Animal Rights Campaigners?

[Cat Burger]

Hah, I think we'd have been in a bit more trouble if they were, EAT VEG!

My friend was just being nihilistic for a joke, and this small lad with clear short man's syndrome stirred the rest of them up. Some of them were trying to calm the angry ones.

I of course used the trump card "my best friend at high school was an asian lad" which is true. But yeah there was no racist remarks from us which was why I was laughing in their faces, only because I was drunk did I not realise the severity of the situation. I wish I was that brave all the time.