Club Calls Open Meeting..

[Jon the Hat]

No way, ive got better things to do than ask them lot to change club policy that they wont/cant.

You said "If you go along to the meeting, make reasonable representations and nothing is done about them then that is the time to complain"

You see, i doubt anyone will make a reasonable complaint/suggestion, that the club will ignore.

I don't believe the problem is club policy, particularly if your earlier argument about the rules being the same up an down the country is correct (other clubs don't seem to hav this problem). The problem is the way the policy is being implemented by the Stewards, and the clubs lack of ability to recognise or deal with the fans concerns about this.

[Jon the Hat]

Suffolk Fox and Shipman Out make a lot of good points - indeed there appears to be far more common sense talked on here than I saw at the stadium on Saturday.

There seems to be something about putting a uniform on a man or woman which seems to change their personaility.

It's almost as if the "coat" represents authority and they have to SHOW they have power over you ... at least so long as there's lots of other "coats" to back them up.

Have you ever met policemen, stewards, traffic wardens out of uniform?. They are often quiet, reserved, perfectly reasonable sorts of people.

But, as I've said in other contexts, give them a uniform, give them authority and some become confrontational bullies to such an extent that - as in history - they would even slay the first born children to demonstrate their status and their subservience to whatever law is written (however stupid).

They take the opportunity to intimidate but in reality are just sheep. On their own, with no back up, they would be much more understanding. And that is what we want them to be on match days. Reasonable, understanding and intent only on making sure we all enjoy watching the match safely.

People chosen for the job should first and foremost be diplomats rather than hard cases. There is even a case for SOME (not all) stewards to simply wear/carry a badge (or something discreet) that allows them to move in quietly to take the steam out of situations.

Those bright orange coats are wonderful for being seen but they are like flames to petrol. They can be highly provocative and when I saw those 8-10 stewards racing up the Kop-end steps and some manhandling the fan I thought that any minute there would be a reaction.

It really wasn't the way to deal with the situation and it could have caused the sort of riot which would have resulted in the game being abandoned.

The fan was doubtless out of order. But the stewards were the professionals and they should have reacted calmly and with the sole intention of cooling the waters rather than making them boil.

I hope Leicester City in their inevitable desire to show support for their helpers doesn't fail to acknowledge that what happened was dangerously counter productive. They should ensure that it doesn't happen again.

A sensible perpective as usual from Thracian. Perhaps the club should be encouraged to bring in some external consultants on the issue of dealing with inflammatory situations. There must be a number of experts out there who could be of use.

[Hutber's Law]

No way, ive got better things to do than ask them lot to change club policy that they wont/cant.

You said "If you go along to the meeting, make reasonable representations and nothing is done about them then that is the time to complain"

You see, i doubt anyone will make a reasonable complaint/suggestion, that the club will ignore.

As usual, Lush, your argument is full of non sequiturs. My point, as I am very sure you know, is that it is unreasonable of you to criticise the club for not responding to your concerns when you have yet to put them to them.

[lush]

It's almost as if the "coat" represents authority and they have to SHOW they have power over you

The coat does represent authority, and they do have power over fans, thats the whole point of a steward with coat. Its how they do their job individually, and collectively.

Theres a dangerous feeling growing on this subject now, that all stewards are bad people.

Jon:

"I don't believe the problem is club policy, particularly if your earlier argument about the rules being the same up an down the country is correct (other clubs don't seem to hav this problem). The problem is the way the policy is being implemented by the Stewards, and the clubs lack of ability to recognise or deal with the fans concerns about this."

I could say every club does seem to have this problem tho. Jon, have you got a personal problem with the club, and the way their stewards behave, or are you just jumping on the bandwagon to complain?

The plymouth fan could be totally bullshitting us. He could be the one whos completely wrong, and peeved cos we beat them that day.

Again, i doubt the club would eject someone for something so little as celebrating a goal, because 20,000 dont get ejected.

a man, could you rephrase that back to me in English please?

[Jon the Hat]

The coat does represent authority, and they do have power over fans, thats the whole point of a steward with coat. Its how they do their job individually, and collectively.

Theres a dangerous feeling growing on this subject now, that all stewards are bad people.

Jon:

"I don't believe the problem is club policy, particularly if your earlier argument about the rules being the same up an down the country is correct (other clubs don't seem to hav this problem). The problem is the way the policy is being implemented by the Stewards, and the clubs lack of ability to recognise or deal with the fans concerns about this."

I could say every club does seem to have this problem tho. Jon, have you got a personal problem with the club, and the way their stewards behave, or are you just jumping on the bandwagon to complain?

The plymouth fan could be totally bullshitting us. He could be the one whos completely wrong, and peeved cos we beat them that day.

Again, i doubt the club would eject someone for something so little as celebrating a goal, because 20,000 dont get ejected.

a man, could you rephrase that back to me in English please?

I've been to the pub for lunch and I'm feeling argumentative. What's your excuse?

[lush]

I care Jon.

[Manwell Pablo]

OMG Lush its no just one Plymoth Fan FFS. We have a problem with Stewards, ALOT OF PEOPLE THINK SO. the only reason u dont recognise this either A) ur an Argumentative &^%()^ Or B) Uve only ever been to one football ground.

Why was this topic started somthing simply as a willy puller gesture, should not get kicked out.

FOR THE LAST TIME.

THE CLUB CAN CHANGE IT IF IT WAS A GOSPEL RULE THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY THEN OTHER CLUBS WOULD HAVE TO ENFORCE IT.

WHICH THEY DONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hutber's Law]

The club has given you an opportunity to put directly to them what you think is wrong and for someone who criticises them regularly you would have thought you'd snap their hand off for the chance to hold them to task.

That you aren't going to undermines what you have been saying.

You can't say the club aren't listening to you when you aren't talking to them.

[Jon the Hat]

I care Jon.

Me too, I'm just being Facetious. Apologies. I have no personal problem with the club or stewards, but it worries me that people are so concerned about this problem. And there is nothing wrong with me expressing views on this or any other subject on the forum. I just find the negative "we won't change anything" and "stewards have the authority" argument a bit counterproductive. No one is condoning violent or agressive behavour, but fans are going to stop going to games if they are not allowed to express themselves. That means being able to get excited and vent their views to the oopposition fans (but not in the Family enclosure).

The point about the coat being a sign of authority is that sometimes it is used inappropriately. We've all seen in it at bars and clubs, well it is the same in Football. It can inflame the situation and make the problems worse. Authority must be used responsibly.

[lush]

The club has given you an opportunity to put directly to them what you think is wrong and for someone who criticises them regularly you would have thought you'd snap their hand off for the chance to hold them to task.

You can't say the club aren't listening to you when you aren't talking to them.

TRUST me, they will not agree to what i`d liked changed. Do you think they`ll want a club run by supporters who dont get paid, or only get expenses (not including players of course, well not for now).

They wont let the media ask them questions they dont like answering honestly with, so forget that.

They cant change the footballing ground laws themselves, so pointless asking them about any of that.

Manwell, can you be specific as to what you want the club to do, regards the stewards?

[Jon the Hat]

TRUST me, they will not agree to what i`d liked changed. Do you think they`ll want a club run by supporters who dont get paid, or only get expenses (not including players of course, well not for now).

They wont let the media ask them questions they dont like answering honestly with, so forget that.

They cant change the footballing ground laws themselves, so pointless asking them about any of that.

Manwell, can you be specific as to what you want the club to do, regards the stewards?

If the problem is all down to the ground laws then why are other clubs not having this same problem? It's the application of the laws, and that is down to the club.

You are not asking to run the club, just expressing your views on an issue which affects you as a customer.

[lush]

but fans are going to stop going to games if they are not allowed to express themselves. That means being able to get excited and vent their views to the oopposition fans (but not in the Family enclosure).

The point about the coat being a sign of authority is that sometimes it is used inappropriately. We've all seen in it at bars and clubs, well it is the same in Football. It can inflame the situation and make the problems worse. Authority must be used responsibly.

The club adhere to fans expressing themselves sensibly. By venting views towards away fans, dont you think that could incite violence? Or be specific about what sort of view you mean?

Ok, so tell us where stewarding authority has been used inapropriately? And i dont mean whats been said, because we have no proof of it.

[lush]

If the problem is all down to the ground laws then why are other clubs not having this same problem? It's the application of the laws, and that is down to the club.

What makes you think other clubs dont have the same problem? Ive been to other grounds and seen worse, alot worse in recent years. At hull, a steward was everso sloppy with someone who had his feet on the chair infront. All he had to say was, take your feet of mate, but he said, take your feet off (in a stroppy manner), thats not at city.

How has the application of the laws been broken?

[Jon the Hat]

The club adhere to fans expressing themselves sensibly. By venting views towards away fans, dont you think that could incite violence? Or be specific about what sort of view you mean?

Ok, so tell us where stewarding authority has been used inapropriately? And i dont mean whats been said, because we have no proof of it.

What proof do you need? Fans believe that Stewards are too quick to expel people from the ground, are over reacting to chanting at opposition fans and are too quick to go in mob handed when a quiet word in the ear would be more appropriate. Groups of Stewards running around is in itself inappropriate. It's like the Police charging aroun in riot gear, it makes people more aggressive and is far more likely to incite violence than fans chanting and gesticulating at each other.

Hence Thraican's suggestion of a number of stewards in suits (for exmaple) moving around and giving out warning would not wind up fans in other areas of the ground.

[lush]

What proof do you need? Fans believe that Stewards are too quick to expel people from the ground, are over reacting to chanting at opposition fans and are too quick to go in mob handed when a quiet word in the ear would be more appropriate. Groups of Stewards running around is in itself inappropriate. It's like the Police charging aroun in riot gear, it makes people more aggressive and is far more likely to incite violence than fans chanting and gesticulating at each other.

i get it, your just a wind-up merchant. Your talking complete and utter nonsense now. If you were a copper/steward whatever, would you wana risk injury by going in mob handed grow the fvck up mate ffs!

[Manwell Pablo]

I have been Specfic as have other people.

I dont want people getting kicked out for swearing (Kop)

I dont wan people getting kicked for gesturing ( any where )

I want the levels of security to represent that of every other ground I have been to in my life time.

I want to stewards to be less heavy handed as they insight more of a ruchous then any one else does!

I want to stop having this conversation with u!

[Manwell Pablo]

i get it, your just a wind-up merchant. Your talking complete and utter nonsense now. If you were a copper/steward whatever, would you wana risk injury by going in mob handed grow the fvck up mate ffs!

You really have never been to the walkers stadium have you?

They always go in mob handed to early.

[lush]

I dont want people getting kicked out for swearing (Kop)

I dont wan people getting kicked for gesturing ( any where )

I want to stop having this conversation with u!

Read this...IT IS AGAINST FOOTBALLING GROUND POLICY TO SWEAR!!

Then dont go to football matches if you wana gesture to incitement OR change the law.

Conversation ENDED then!!

[Jon the Hat]

i get it, your just a wind-up merchant. Your talking complete and utter nonsense now. If you were a copper/steward whatever, would you wana risk injury by going in mob handed grow the fvck up mate ffs!

It's all about perception. If fans believe they or their fellow fans are being hard done by or treated unfairly then there is a problem.

You aren't making sense now. No I wouldn't want to risk injury by going in mob handed. So I wouldn't go in mob handed - I would have a quiet word and ask people to stop what they were doing. And If a Steward or Policeman gets injured I would expect to see those responsible in court for assualt, with the club backing them.

[lush]

You aren't making sense now. No I wouldn't want to risk injury by going in mob handed. So I wouldn't go in mob handed - I would have a quiet word and ask people to stop what they were doing. And If a Steward or Policeman gets injured I would expect to see those responsible in court for assualt, with the club backing them.

So stewards on £20 a game arnt going to risk injury going in mob handed. Whenever a steward or policeman has spoken to a fan near me, its always been done sensibly and never "mob handed".

It seems that only when a large group of fans have caused a fuss, they do go in mob handed, and you cant blame them because of the risks involved.

Think about it?

[Manwell Pablo]

So stewards on £20 a game arnt going to risk injury going in mob handed. Whenever a steward or policeman has spoken to a fan near me, its always been done sensibly and never "mob handed".

It seems that only when a large group of fans have caused a fuss, they do go in mob handed, and you cant blame them because of the risks involved.

Think about it?

They always go in Mob handed, I Gesture at all football matches. And I will do at the Galpharm on Saturday and guess what, I wont get kicked out, why? because its not at the Walkers.

Read this

IT CAN BE CHANGED!

Tim Davis even said being kicked out for a gesture from 60 yards is ridicoulous

U clown.

N e way im going Huddersfield so yeah Conversation Ended!

[lush]

N e way im going Huddersfield so yeah Conversation Ended!

No, conversation is ENDED now

[davieG]

Lush, unfortunately individuals do get ejected for celebrating a goal, I know of a specific incident where this occurred.

My son and his mates were celebrating a goal on the back row of the Kop and had stayed standing slightly longer than the rest of the crowd, note it's quite logical after any incident involving the need to stand that the return to the seating position starts at the front and works it's way back.

Before they could actually sit down 4 stewards came up the steps and proceeded to man-handle one of his mates out and to eject him from the game.

An interesting point to note is that he was one of 8 guys, who had been standing longer, all in their late twenties, and although he was the 5th furthest away from the the end of the 8 and the end of the row, surprise, surprise he happened to be the smallest - coincidence like hell it was.

You should be aware that individuals are removed in order to set and example, there is no way they would attempt to remove a whole section, some of them may be bastards but they're not all stupid.

And just so you don't get the wrong idea on this one of my lad's mates, who wasn't at this particular game is also a senior steward down there.

I do agree with you on one point though I see little opportunity for change as it's fast becoming part of the culture of this country to control people. Hence their delight at the rise and rise of synchronised clapping, why else do they continue to, not only play music at every opportunity but also cringingly awful stuff as well and it is laughably considered to be atmosphere.

[Foxes_Trust]

TRUST me, they will not agree to what i`d liked changed. Do you think they`ll want a club run by supporters who dont get paid, or only get expenses (not including players of course, well not for now).

They wont let the media ask them questions they dont like answering honestly with, so forget that.

They cant change the footballing ground laws themselves, so pointless asking them about any of that.

Manwell, can you be specific as to what you want the club to do, regards the stewards?

So that means you want a club ran by a Trust then?

You must recognise however, as we do, that running a club with a £1-2m turnover is significantly different to one with a club of our size. If players are paid as they are, surely the person who runs the club should be receiving a salary

[lush]

So that means you want a club ran by a Trust then?

You must recognise however, as we do, that running a club with a £1-2m turnover is significantly different to one with a club of our size. If players are paid as they are, surely the person who runs the club should be receiving a salary

Possibly run bu "A" trust, but definately not yours from the way you`ve behaved. I understand that your as passionette as me, but i feel your currently too far up lcfc`s arse, sorry, but thats the way you come accross mate.

Dedicated fans wouldnt need to earn a wage by running our club.

Your 2nd point, NO, N O, NO!! Just because players are paid money, doesnt mean those that "enlist" that ideology should do so aswell. You dont have to be paid to pay someone a fee. That thought explains why you dont realise YOUR position as a trust.

DavieG made the point "I do agree with you on one point though I see little opportunity for change as it's fast becoming part of the culture of this country to control people. Hence their delight at the rise and rise of synchronised clapping, why else do they continue to, not only play music at every opportunity but also cringingly awful stuff as well and it is laughably considered to be atmosphere".

FT, you fall into the trap of doing what you think you should do, not rather what you should do?

Example, you think its fair to (for what of a better phrase or term) discriminate against a STH by charging non sth`s less for a game. That is WRONG!

In an idea world, a football player would get paid a sensible wage, and the supporter would support that sensible wage. THAT, is what we fans should thrive to acheive.

But hey, its a business, and if the masses are happy with that, then let them pay over the odds and suffer when they dont get value for money, which is more than 50% of the time.