Why isn’t there a song or chant for Maddison?

[Finnegan]

Wait, you tried to put words to it? Isn't it just a "der der der der" thing yelling James Maddison at the end?

 

The whole reason it was a genius idea (beyond that it's topical) is that it was simple. If you've tried to put words to it, while I applaud the effort, it's no wonder it didn't really take off.

 

I've said the same thing before a million times, you're always way better off sticking to "simple" chants and songs. Catchy stuff, with as few words as possible, a decent hook and as much "doo" and "der" as possible. I don't care how cheesy or boring it seems, if you actually want the majority of the KP to sing it it's gotta be easy.

[Swalshed]

1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

It’s just a bit crap though that.

 

SK1 got the words so the six lines are not beyond anyone.

Maybe, to keep everyone happy and as many included as possible, you guys could alternate the lyrical verse with a verse of der der der der der Mad-is-son (as per @shailen original idea)? This might help more of the Kop and stadium join in? 

 

Love a third alternative  💙

[Finnegan]

19 hours ago, SemperEadem said:

It’s just a bit crap though that.

 

SK1 got the words so the six lines are not beyond anyone.

 

This right here in a nutshell is one of the bigger issues with UFS & SK1. 

 

I've always believed absolutely that your hearts are in the right place but you need to ask yourselves, do you want to have fun doing things your own way or do you want to get the rest of the stadium involved? 

 

There's nothing wrong with the former, at all. If you want to sing songs you enjoy singing, create a bit of atmosphere in your corner that you enjoy, make friends with the people around you and share an experience that means something to you then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

 

But the thing is, UFS has a mission statement and that mission statement says quite clearly:

 

Union Filbo Spirit, or Union FS, is a Leicester City fan group committed to bolstering the atmosphere and fostering a rich fan culture at Filbert Way.

 

We believe fans enjoy supporting their team most when they’re able to actively engage on matchdays and we wholeheartedly agree with Birch’s pre-match rallying call that supporters “…can, and do make a difference.”

 

The original goal of Union FS is to create an atmosphere which helps the players give that extra few percent that is so often decisive.

 

 

As I've said in the past, I sit in C2 which is a largely non-singing corner on the opposite side of the Kop to SK1. It's extremely rare that any noise being made purely in SK1 carries that far. It just gets lost in the general rumbling across the Kop and out competed by the away fans or L1 if they ever chirp up. 

 

Now I don't doubt that what I have surely heard are plenty of songs sung across the Kop that started in SK1 and that is where your super power lies, in theory you should be the band leaders. 

 

However, if you want to inspire the rest of the stadium to get involved, you need to compromise on your own personal preferences and be willing to tailor a songbook to a wider audience. If you're going to play DJ for a house party, you don't just bang on the obscure shit you like, do you? You feel the room a bit, put on stuff that you know has appeal collectively.

 

The top three most successful songs we've had in the KP in recent years, by way of % of stadium singing (if my block are at it, you know you've got something) - 

 

1. We Love You

2. "Ben Marshall" 

3. Vichai Had A Dream 

 

That's two songs that have predominant "woh oh" sections that don't require words at all and one with a strong emotional link, easy Sloop John B melody and lyrics everyone half knew from other clubs anyway. 

 

I heard someone sneer at Villa, in this thread I think, for having a generic songbook. Likewise Wolves. But those generic songbooks work. They get people involved. The public, on mass, are boring creatures. They like Ed Sheeran and Adele, it doesn't get more basic. Appeal to them. "If SK1 can learn it, everyone can" just doesn't work, the people in SK1 have a different attitude to football chants to most of the ground and if you want mass participation you've got to learn that. 

 

Of course, I end by reiterating the first thing I said - there's absolutely nothing at all wrong with sticking to your principles, being punk as fvck about it and singing what you want to anyway. I actually admire that and I think it's cool. But just don't marry that up with surprise and disappointment when you don't achieve mass participation and don't blame the rest of the stadium for not getting involved if they don't like or can't follow what you're singing. 

 

[Voll Blau]

56 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

This right here in a nutshell is one of the bigger issues with UFS & SK1. 

 

I've always believed absolutely that your hearts are in the right place but you need to ask yourselves, do you want to have fun doing things your own way or do you want to get the rest of the stadium involved? 

 

There's nothing wrong with the former, at all. If you want to sing songs you enjoy singing, create a bit of atmosphere in your corner that you enjoy, make friends with the people around you and share an experience that means something to you then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

 

But the thing is, UFS has a mission statement and that mission statement says quite clearly:

 

 

 

 

As I've said in the past, I sit in C2 which is a largely non-singing corner on the opposite side of the Kop to SK1. It's extremely rare that any noise being made purely in SK1 carries that far. It just gets lost in the general rumbling across the Kop and out competed by the away fans or L1 if they ever chirp up. 

 

Now I don't doubt that what I have surely heard are plenty of songs sung across the Kop that started in SK1 and that is where your super power lies, in theory you should be the band leaders. 

 

However, if you want to inspire the rest of the stadium to get involved, you need to compromise on your own personal preferences and be willing to tailor a songbook to a wider audience. If you're going to play DJ for a house party, you don't just bang on the obscure shit you like, do you? You feel the room a bit, put on stuff that you know has appeal collectively.

 

The top three most successful songs we've had in the KP in recent years, by way of % of stadium singing (if my block are at it, you know you've got something) - 

 

1. We Love You

2. "Ben Marshall" 

3. Vichai Had A Dream 

 

That's two songs that have predominant "woh oh" sections that don't require words at all and one with a strong emotional link, easy Sloop John B melody and lyrics everyone half knew from other clubs anyway. 

 

I heard someone sneer at Villa, in this thread I think, for having a generic songbook. Likewise Wolves. But those generic songbooks work. They get people involved. The public, on mass, are boring creatures. They like Ed Sheeran and Adele, it doesn't get more basic. Appeal to them. "If SK1 can learn it, everyone can" just doesn't work, the people in SK1 have a different attitude to football chants to most of the ground and if you want mass participation you've got to learn that. 

 

Of course, I end by reiterating the first thing I said - there's absolutely nothing at all wrong with sticking to your principles, being punk as fvck about it and singing what you want to anyway. I actually admire that and I think it's cool. But just don't marry that up with surprise and disappointment when you don't achieve mass participation and don't blame the rest of the stadium for not getting involved if they don't like or can't follow what you're singing. 

 

UFS don't see things in black and white, though. As with anything in life, there's a balance to be struck and compromises to be had - and, believe me, UFS have had to compromise on all sorts of things over the years.

 

You don't have to look beyond these boards to see just how much stick they get for doing too much of one thing or another. Sing too many "whoawhoawhoa" type tunes, they get grief from blokes who aren't into Euro-style support. Sing not enough of them, they get accused of being snobbish. Sing Leicester chants that have been sung for decades, they're accused of singing songs that are too wordy. Sing chants with original lyrics, people are moaning about it immediately after the first match it's tried because they don't know the words yet.

 

Appreciate you're in a different part of the ground but all of the types of chants I mentioned are sung in SK1 every single game. And guess what? Depending on what mood the rest of the block/Kop/ground are in depends on what type of chant catches on each game. It's not just a case of "well, if we just sing YooToob Ultras' Greatest Hits then Filbert Way automatically becomes a cauldron", because I promise you that's been tried on multiple occasions and it doesn't work.

 

It's a coincidence you should bring up We Love You and Ben Marshall by the way. Both catchy chants, but both chants spurned over the years by Leicester fans before half of the Football League were singing versions of them. The fact they caught on was nothing to do with Leicester fans only liking catchy songs, and everything to do with just wanting to follow a brief trend in what songs were popular at the time.

 

So, in summary. Yes, there are compromises to be had, but those compromises are already being had in SK1 - and the introduction of one new six-line chant that contains actual words and three different rhymes (to a tune that everyone admits is catchy) isn't evidence that UFS aren't interested in seeing the bigger picture when it comes to our support.

[SemperEadem]

38 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

This right here in a nutshell is one of the bigger issues with UFS & SK1. 

 

I've always believed absolutely that your hearts are in the right place but you need to ask yourselves, do you want to have fun doing things your own way or do you want to get the rest of the stadium involved? 

 

There's nothing wrong with the former, at all. If you want to sing songs you enjoy singing, create a bit of atmosphere in your corner that you enjoy, make friends with the people around you and share an experience that means something to you then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

 

But the thing is, UFS has a mission statement and that mission statement says quite clearly:

 

 

 

 

As I've said in the past, I sit in C2 which is a largely non-singing corner on the opposite side of the Kop to SK1. It's extremely rare that any noise being made purely in SK1 carries that far. It just gets lost in the general rumbling across the Kop and out competed by the away fans or L1 if they ever chirp up. 

 

Now I don't doubt that what I have surely heard are plenty of songs sung across the Kop that started in SK1 and that is where your super power lies, in theory you should be the band leaders. 

 

However, if you want to inspire the rest of the stadium to get involved, you need to compromise on your own personal preferences and be willing to tailor a songbook to a wider audience. If you're going to play DJ for a house party, you don't just bang on the obscure shit you like, do you? You feel the room a bit, put on stuff that you know has appeal collectively.

 

The top three most successful songs we've had in the KP in recent years, by way of % of stadium singing (if my block are at it, you know you've got something) - 

 

1. We Love You

2. "Ben Marshall" 

3. Vichai Had A Dream 

 

That's two songs that have predominant "woh oh" sections that don't require words at all and one with a strong emotional link, easy Sloop John B melody and lyrics everyone half knew from other clubs anyway. 

 

I heard someone sneer at Villa, in this thread I think, for having a generic songbook. Likewise Wolves. But those generic songbooks work. They get people involved. The public, on mass, are boring creatures. They like Ed Sheeran and Adele, it doesn't get more basic. Appeal to them. "If SK1 can learn it, everyone can" just doesn't work, the people in SK1 have a different attitude to football chants to most of the ground and if you want mass participation you've got to learn that. 

 

Of course, I end by reiterating the first thing I said - there's absolutely nothing at all wrong with sticking to your principles, being punk as fvck about it and singing what you want to anyway. I actually admire that and I think it's cool. But just don't marry that up with surprise and disappointment when you don't achieve mass participation and don't blame the rest of the stadium for not getting involved if they don't like or can't follow what you're singing. 

 

Want to point out that I am no way talking for UFS as a whole and don't do. A lot don't openly post on here as being a member as a lot of the times it is not just not worth it as you have to log in with tin hat on.

 

You have a group who want to put into the ground life, colour and set it apart from others. 

We regularly get told oh sing the Ben Marshall song. Ok I can half see the point people are trying to make by sayingthat. Thing is right, at 90% of home games you look to your left and its glum looking folk sat on their hands, look to the right it is the same. You sing 'Vichai had a dream' at games and even that can't get them to muster a song. You sing ' Leicester's fair city' to appeal to the older lot and it's the same response again. Got to the point now where you just can't win. 'Oh UFS sing songs with too many words silly wannabe ultras, oh UFS are singing songs with no words silly wannabe ultras'.

Firmly believe with atmosphere it all boils down to effort. Do you have the effort to sing a Sloop John B tune to every 3rd player or do you want to sing a more varied and unique songbook. I get with those examples there given there are arguments within both. I remember seeing a video of Liverpool fans (possibly at Preston in a pre season but could be wrong) having a concourse of younger looking supporters singing 'Poor Scouser Tommy' song. This is wordy song not a six line Maddison one. You would need to sit down and learn it, putting the effort in. Now granted our fanbase is miles off the creativeness Liverpool's have but what I'm saying is the same profile of supporter at our club would look at you as if you had three heads if you ever tried something like that. And I wonder why?

 

This whole recent point about the Maddison song with words vs the one without for me is one shows a difference in what you want from a song. 

 

UFS attract members for a number of different reasons I'm sure. Over the years and at home games I see lads getting despondent with 90 minutes of what really at times can be flogging a dead horse. Singing songs that the fanbase know but just won't sing. There are times when certainly I have just thought sod you lot then if you don't want to sing or try and have fun at football then why should we cave. If we are enjoying it well who is the winner. But then on perhaps more balanced thoughts you think right lets try this one this week and see how it goes. Sadly 9 times out of 10 its the same result

 

Only way it gets any better for me is a large designated singing block. The three games these have been done it has shown that noise is made and a good variety of songs can occur. Longer term you would hope this only gets better and a natural balance is found where songs do improve. Leicester fans desire for being creative improves. But this is looking like Everest right now when you have a club that does not really see any benefit in anything like this.

 

Would also want to ask which songs UFS/SK1 have sung in the past that are too wordy, thats not really aimed at yourself I just see it crop up and can't put my finger on examples.

 

- Not really sure if I have answered your points. Don't feel I have written particularly well.

 

[Finnegan]

10 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

You don't have to look beyond these boards to see just how much stick they get for doing too much of one thing or another. Sing too many "whoawhoawhoa" type tunes, they get grief from blokes who aren't into Euro-style support. Sing not enough of them, they get accused of being snobbish. Sing Leicester chants that have been sung for decades, they're accused of singing songs that are too wordy. Sing chants with original lyrics, people are moaning about it immediately after the first match it's tried because they don't know the words yet. (1.)

 

Appreciate you're in a different part of the ground but all of the types of chants I mentioned are sung in SK1 every single game. And guess what? Depending on what mood the rest of the block/Kop/ground are in depends on what type of chant catches on each game. It's not just a case of "well, if we just sing YooToob Ultras' Greatest Hits then Filbert Way automatically becomes a cauldron", because I promise you that's been tried on multiple occasions and it doesn't work.

 

It's a coincidence you should bring up We Love You and Ben Marshall by the way. Both catchy chants, but both chants spurned over the years by Leicester fans before half of the Football League were singing versions of them. The fact they caught on was nothing to do with Leicester fans only liking catchy songs, and everything to do with just wanting to follow a brief trend in what songs were popular at the time. (2.)

 

So, in summary. Yes, there are compromises to be had, but those compromises are already being had in SK1 - and the introduction of one new six-line chant that contains actual words and three different rhymes (to a tune that everyone admits is catchy) isn't evidence that UFS aren't interested in seeing the bigger picture when it comes to our support. (3.)

 

 

1. But this is part of the problem as well, you give way too many fvcks what people think about you/us. I see time after time people (football fans in general, not specifically UFS) sneering at other fanbases for being "cringey" or being upset when that accusation is thrown at us. When are people going to sit up a bit and go "hang on a minute, that's just what the internet does." It's like the shit with the clappers, every other fanbase (whose home stadiums are like libraries) come here and laugh/moan/sneer/rolleyes at the clappers and how 'plastic' and 'cringe' they are but those clappers are making noise. Who gives a shit if a song is poppy and generic if it's actually making a decent amount of noise in the stadium? Whatever you do, chances are that people on the internet are going to mock you for it or complain about it. A large, large amount of that is going to be jealousy and you've got to break free of being concerned by public opinion.

 

The measure of your success is not the response you get on social media, the measure of your success is how much noise you help cultivate in the stadium and that is all there is to it. Nothing else matters.

 

On that note:

 

2. But that's what the mass public like! People, on the whole, have shit taste and love a bandwagon. It's why crap X-Factor pop songs were guaranteed number one hits, it's why the icebucket challenge swept the nation, it's why idiots (who voted Tory) were out in the streets "clapping for the NHS", it's why I'm A Celebrity has got to 21 seasons and Married At First Sight is actually a thing. What on Earth is wrong with doing what fanbases like Villa do, which is quickly copy whatever the latest fad chant is, change two or three words to make it relevant for your club and then rinse and repeat every six months when something new comes along? They get much better results than we do.

 

3. I get that it isn't straightforward, I really do, I don't claim to have all of the answers. But whatever you're currently doing hasn't really worked. I'm not looking at this one chant in isolation as evidence that UFS aren't particularly successful at cultivating mass-appeal, I'm looking at a track record spanning several years of attempts that have born very little fruit. The Tifos have been excellent, the charity work is fantastic and the fact you have a line of communication with the club is good. There's loads to like - but how much better is the atmosphere now than when it started? At what point do you go "we're not really getting much to catch on, what can we do differently?"

 

Again, you don't HAVE to compromise your integrity. You don't owe any other supporters anything, you don't have an obligation to try harder than anyone else to get people involved and you can just go to the football and enjoy yourselves doing your thing. You can just say "get off your soapbox, Finnegan, and pipe down." But if your dream is to get the majority of the stadium roaring stuff out in one voice? You've got to find something they'll sing, even if it's just copying some melody off Liverpool and getting laughed at for it on social media or having some boring Pen 1 old boy roll his eyes because it's 'too European.'

[Voll Blau]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

1. But this is part of the problem as well, you give way too many fvcks what people think about you/us. I see time after time people (football fans in general, not specifically UFS) sneering at other fanbases for being "cringey" or being upset when that accusation is thrown at us. When are people going to sit up a bit and go "hang on a minute, that's just what the internet does." It's like the shit with the clappers, every other fanbase (whose home stadiums are like libraries) come here and laugh/moan/sneer/rolleyes at the clappers and how 'plastic' and 'cringe' they are but those clappers are making noise. Who gives a shit if a song is poppy and generic if it's actually making a decent amount of noise in the stadium? Whatever you do, chances are that people on the internet are going to mock you for it or complain about it. A large, large amount of that is going to be jealousy and you've got to break free of being concerned by public opinion.

 

The measure of your success is not the response you get on social media, the measure of your success is how much noise you help cultivate in the stadium and that is all there is to it. Nothing else matters.

 

On that note:

 

2. But that's what the mass public like! People, on the whole, have shit taste and love a bandwagon. It's why crap X-Factor pop songs were guaranteed number one hits, it's why the icebucket challenge swept the nation, it's why idiots (who voted Tory) were out in the streets "clapping for the NHS", it's why I'm A Celebrity has got to 21 seasons and Married At First Sight is actually a thing. What on Earth is wrong with doing what fanbases like Villa do, which is quickly copy whatever the latest fad chant is, change two or three words to make it relevant for your club and then rinse and repeat every six months when something new comes along? They get much better results than we do.

 

3. I get that it isn't straightforward, I really do, I don't claim to have all of the answers. But whatever you're currently doing hasn't really worked. I'm not looking at this one chant in isolation as evidence that UFS aren't particularly successful at cultivating mass-appeal, I'm looking at a track record spanning several years of attempts that have born very little fruit. The Tifos have been excellent, the charity work is fantastic and the fact you have a line of communication with the club is good. There's loads to like - but how much better is the atmosphere now than when it started? At what point do you go "we're not really getting much to catch on, what can we do differently?"

 

Again, you don't HAVE to compromise your integrity. You don't owe any other supporters anything, you don't have an obligation to try harder than anyone else to get people involved and you can just go to the football and enjoy yourselves doing your thing. You can just say "get off your soapbox, Finnegan, and pipe down." But if your dream is to get the majority of the stadium roaring stuff out in one voice? You've got to find something they'll sing, even if it's just copying some melody off Liverpool and getting laughed at for it on social media or having some boring Pen 1 old boy roll his eyes because it's 'too European.'

 

17 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

1. But this is part of the problem as well, you give way too many fvcks what people think about you/us. I see time after time people (football fans in general, not specifically UFS) sneering at other fanbases for being "cringey" or being upset when that accusation is thrown at us. When are people going to sit up a bit and go "hang on a minute, that's just what the internet does." It's like the shit with the clappers, every other fanbase (whose home stadiums are like libraries) come here and laugh/moan/sneer/rolleyes at the clappers and how 'plastic' and 'cringe' they are but those clappers are making noise. Who gives a shit if a song is poppy and generic if it's actually making a decent amount of noise in the stadium? Whatever you do, chances are that people on the internet are going to mock you for it or complain about it. A large, large amount of that is going to be jealousy and you've got to break free of being concerned by public opinion.

 

The measure of your success is not the response you get on social media, the measure of your success is how much noise you help cultivate in the stadium and that is all there is to it. Nothing else matters.

 

On that note:

 

2. But that's what the mass public like! People, on the whole, have shit taste and love a bandwagon. It's why crap X-Factor pop songs were guaranteed number one hits, it's why the icebucket challenge swept the nation, it's why idiots (who voted Tory) were out in the streets "clapping for the NHS", it's why I'm A Celebrity has got to 21 seasons and Married At First Sight is actually a thing. What on Earth is wrong with doing what fanbases like Villa do, which is quickly copy whatever the latest fad chant is, change two or three words to make it relevant for your club and then rinse and repeat every six months when something new comes along? They get much better results than we do.

 

3. I get that it isn't straightforward, I really do, I don't claim to have all of the answers. But whatever you're currently doing hasn't really worked. I'm not looking at this one chant in isolation as evidence that UFS aren't particularly successful at cultivating mass-appeal, I'm looking at a track record spanning several years of attempts that have born very little fruit. The Tifos have been excellent, the charity work is fantastic and the fact you have a line of communication with the club is good. There's loads to like - but how much better is the atmosphere now than when it started? At what point do you go "we're not really getting much to catch on, what can we do differently?"

 

Again, you don't HAVE to compromise your integrity. You don't owe any other supporters anything, you don't have an obligation to try harder than anyone else to get people involved and you can just go to the football and enjoy yourselves doing your thing. You can just say "get off your soapbox, Finnegan, and pipe down." But if your dream is to get the majority of the stadium roaring stuff out in one voice? You've got to find something they'll sing, even if it's just copying some melody off Liverpool and getting laughed at for it on social media or having some boring Pen 1 old boy roll his eyes because it's 'too European.'

1. I wasn't just talking about social media though, I'm talking about the real consequences at games. Ultimately, what songs catch on are decided by the mood of other fans each game. There really does appear to be no rhyme or reason to it at the moment.

 

2. I'm telling you that it simply doesn't work like that at Leicester. UFS could copy every fad song going and some games you'd get zilch from everywhere else in the ground, Plus, even if they're only changing the odd word they'd still be told by some sections that it's too wordy!

 

3. Believe me, UFS are constantly fretting and worrying about what they could do differently in order to appeal to more people. Again, as I said, all these things you suggest *have been tried* at one stage or another. The group's biggest issue is that it was formed just before the most successful time in the club's history and therefore there has literally been no room for them to expand and gather like-minded fans together over the years unless the odd season ticket becomes free nearby. Any time they have been granted the opportunity of doing their own section (Cup trials against Wigan, Brighton and Watford), they've been absolutely bouncing because you've got hundreds who are there specifically to sing (a mixture of songs, I might add), rather than a few dozen. But, given the club are unwilling to entertain a permanent version of that at present, they're completely hamstrung and just reliant on the rest of the Kop/ground being in the mood for a sing-song - whatever they're singing.

 

It really is not as simple as saying "well, if you want to get everyone singing just do fad songs" because that absolutely isn't the case.