john_lcfc Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 bbc report saw this on the news.. i thought aussies were all peaceful
davieG Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 bbc report saw this on the news.. i thought aussies were all peaceful Yes it's a shame they've let all those immigrants into their Country.
Thracian Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 England, France, Holland, Germany, Russia, Australia, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc, etc --- a world war without a formally recognised declaration... Welcome to the benefits of multiculturalism and religious revolution. Welcome to the results of rapid global travel.... Welcome to the consequence of Internet communications... Welcome to the age of mobile phones and technological wizardry If only our wisdom were as great as our inventions. Didn't I hear a nuclear physicist say that once... "What we need is a great big melting pot" And what happens when we get one?. Perhaps it's that 100 years or more of stiring that's needed when (if there's anyone left but the Chinese, which I often wonder) maybe there will be general peace and harmony once more. Who was Jesus really speaking off when he reportedly remarked: "Forgive them Lord. For they know not what they do...." Could he have been looking ahead to the social manipulators of the 21st Century?. Or was it those who would stand still? Anyone in a debating club?
Dunc Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 England, France, Holland, Germany, Russia, Australia, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc, etc --- a world war without a formally recognised declaration... Welcome to the benefits of multiculturalism and religious revolution. Welcome to the results of rapid global travel.... Welcome to the consequence of Internet communications... Welcome to the age of mobile phones and technological wizardry If only our wisdom were as great as our inventions. Didn't I hear a nuclear physicist say that once... "What we need is a great big melting pot" And what happens when we get one?. Perhaps it's that 100 years or more of stiring that's needed when (if there's anyone left but the Chinese, which I often wonder) maybe there will be general peace and harmony once more. Who was Jesus really speaking off when he reportedly remarked: "Forgive them Lord. For they know not what they do...." Could he have been looking ahead to the social manipulators of the 21st Century?. Or was it those who would stand still? Anyone in a debating club? Twat
Thracian Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 Twat Why's that?. I was just being mischievous... Trying to illustrate that there are sometimes unpredictable consequences to all the things we do/invent/discover etc, to all the policies we and others adopt, to all the campaigns, changes that we and others seek to instigate and was finally trying to fester debate in why those consequences occurred and where they might lead. As it provoked your thought provoking single word reply I haven't done very well so far, have I?
TrickyTrev Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 England, France, Holland, Germany, Russia, Australia, Indonesia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc, etc --- a world war without a formally recognised declaration... Welcome to the benefits of multiculturalism and religious revolution. Welcome to the results of rapid global travel.... Welcome to the consequence of Internet communications... Welcome to the age of mobile phones and technological wizardry If only our wisdom were as great as our inventions. Didn't I hear a nuclear physicist say that once... "What we need is a great big melting pot" And what happens when we get one?. Perhaps it's that 100 years or more of stiring that's needed when (if there's anyone left but the Chinese, which I often wonder) maybe there will be general peace and harmony once more. Who was Jesus really speaking off when he reportedly remarked: "Forgive them Lord. For they know not what they do...." Could he have been looking ahead to the social manipulators of the 21st Century?. Or was it those who would stand still? Anyone in a debating club? Don't justify this. Its a bunch of neo-nazi racist thugs. Immigration, which is an esssential for any economy, would work an awful lot eaiser if they didin't exist.
Thracian Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 Don't justify this. Its a bunch of neo-nazi racist thugs. Immigration, which is an esssential for any economy, would work an awful lot eaiser if they didin't exist. Oh, that's it then. All those countries with the same, simple-to-solve problem. And I thought life was complicated.
Deathside Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 The Thousands of young white men mentioned in the report are of course foreigners in Australia
john_lcfc Posted 14 December 2005 Author Posted 14 December 2005 The Thousands of young white men mentioned in the report are of course foreigners in Australia yeah it was black aborigines originally wanit
TrickyTrev Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 Oh, that's it then. All those countries with the same, simple-to-solve problem. And I thought life was complicated. It is quite simple actually. People who don't like others because they come from a different country or because they have a different skin colour are pig shit ignorant scum. They are the problem, they invent or create everythign else.
Rincewind Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 we all need somebody to blame when things are not going right in whatever country you happen to live in. There is not country in the world that does not have some sort of racial hatred. It's the way of the world and Man. It would be great if as in the the song 'ebony and ivory lived in perfect harmony' but it wont happen in my lifetime. Fear of the unknown is at the centre of this racial 'hate'. Fear that the 'newcomer' may disrupt a persons way of life. Progress is only achieved by doing away with old cultures as seen in the American Indians. Before the Europeans arrived they lived a simple life living off the land. Buffalo were killed for food and clothing and the tribes moved around according to the weather. Within a few years of the country being settled the Indians were dying out through disease and the colonist determination to modernize the country. Read ' Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' by Dee Brown. It is an eye-opening read. I've gone off the subject a little I think but overall we cannot have progress and all the benefits that it brings without stepping on some body's toes.
Thracian Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 Indeed, how interesting it would be to hear from the Red Indians (whose ancestors survived) and the Aborigines about all the progress. I'm just hearing about the return of the wildlife to countryside that has been returned from being chemically sprayed to organic. Progress got rid of them too.
TrickyTrev Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 we all need somebody to blame when things are not going right in whatever country you happen to live in. There is not country in the world that does not have some sort of racial hatred. It's the way of the world and Man. It would be great if as in the the song 'ebony and ivory lived in perfect harmony' but it wont happen in my lifetime. Fear of the unknown is at the centre of this racial 'hate'. Fear that the 'newcomer' may disrupt a persons way of life. Progress is only achieved by doing away with old cultures as seen in the American Indians. Before the Europeans arrived they lived a simple life living off the land. Buffalo were killed for food and clothing and the tribes moved around according to the weather. Within a few years of the country being settled the Indians were dying out through disease and the colonist determination to modernize the country. Read ' Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' by Dee Brown. It is an eye-opening read. I've gone off the subject a little I think but overall we cannot have progress and all the benefits that it brings without stepping on some body's toes. I'm fully aware of Amercian history and the innihaltion of native Indians. What this has to do with a host nation welcoming immigrants I don't know. That deals far more with colonilasation and imperilialsm that one hopes, touch wood, are a thing of the past.
Steven Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 I'm fully aware of Amercian history and the innihaltion of native Indians. What this has to do with a host nation welcoming immigrants I don't know. That deals far more with colonilasation and imperilialsm that one hopes, touch wood, are a thing of the past. Iraq ?
cisono Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 Racism on Aussie beaches (and elsewhere) is a problem. But how about those people that killed a randomly-selected victim in the course of an unprovoked "happy slapping" session? My point is: violence is a strange thing in any of its incarnations...
Nationwider Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 But how about those people that killed a randomly-selected victim in the course of an unprovoked "happy slapping" session? It's almost - literally - unbelievable, this story. As someone who generally fears the conseqeunces of us returning to capital punishment, why does the phrase "an eye for an eye..." knaw away at me? I can't think of one good reason for the perpetrators continuing to enjoy the benefits of breathing? Ditto, their parents. I feel worryingly right-wing this week.
cisono Posted 14 December 2005 Posted 14 December 2005 It's almost - literally - unbelievable, this story. As someone who generally fears the conseqeunces of us returning to capital punishment, why does the phrase "an eye for an eye..." knaw away at me? I can't think of one good reason for the perpetrators continuing to enjoy the benefits of breathing? Ditto, their parents. I feel worryingly right-wing this week. I imagine everyone feels rather right-wing in reaction to that story
Thracian Posted 15 December 2005 Posted 15 December 2005 It is quite simple actually. People who don't like others because they come from a different country or because they have a different skin colour are pig shit ignorant scum. They are the problem, they invent or create everythign else. I suppose you think this is a peculiarly white thing too. People who don't like others because of their supposed "origin or skin colour" are often that way because they feel threatened. People across the world respond similarly. It is not an exclusively white reaction. Put simply populations are exactly the same as wildlife in that they live and breed where they feel comfortable, where there is shelter, opportunity to work and where they have allies and feel safe. If some or all of those factors change it affects the indigenous population. If they start to feel uncomfortable, if they find their type of work hard to come by, if they are legislated out of opportunities, if they are increasingly isolated from their allies and if they feel unsafe, they will react in one way or another. Some, like displaced wildlife, will move elsewhere, others will become despairing and desperate, miserable or depressed, some will become provocative or aggressive, especially if someone in "their" territory is attacked, humiliated or abused. That is why it is so important that immigration is properly and thoughtfully controlled, that is why changes need to be introduced slowly so that integration, both of people and ideas are seamlessly and painlessly absorbed. But of course, if you are adamant in believing that ANYONE who advocates caution and thought because they despair the consequences of mass immigration, that anyone who detests the resulting positive discrimination as demeaning to everyone because of all the endless difficulties these things cause is, by definition, racist and hates coloured skins, then there's probably no point trying to change your mind, wrong or not. Labelling people is so much more convenient than having to think things through and having to justify a strongly held view. But perhaps you should first live in the south east to see how native English lives and towns have been changed and made uncomfortable by the teaming masses of asylum seekers. Try and imagine something similar happened in the place where you live. Our policies - linked to our disgraceful capitulation to Europe - have allowed this tide to swamp our system in the name of humanity but to the now irreversible cost to our way of life and to the sense of wellbeing previously felt by virtually everyone who lived here. One hopes there are reasons why the consequences of this invasion for our indigenous population will be different from the Native Americans or the Aborigines mentioned in this thread. But as the Cities change their ethnic face completely (and figures confirm as much), will the suburban housing developments become the Native English "reservations", increasingly populated by the middle aged and older populations because the young native folk have flown, unable to get work here, unable to feel valuable or relevent, unable to feel they have a fair chance and unable to find cheap accommodation in a part of town where they feel safe and comfortable. Only when the natural immigration/emigration patterns stabilise might they finally return but only if they first survive in a foreign land and only if there is a recognisable and welcoming "homeland" to return to. Ironically my own son is probably aiming for Sydney, Australia. So if your comments on this thread were a veiled attack suggesting I might be anti-foreigner, I might ask why would that be, seeing as my own son will likely be a foreigner in the country of his married life?. And he will be married to a foreigner as my oldest son is too. Oh yes and I watched the City versus Stoke match in a pub off the Melton Road. Just the sort of thing an anti-foreigner would do!. Indeed it's a passing point that non of the ethnic Indian customers (there were no whites to be seen) looked too comfortable about OUR presence either. We didn't feel unsafe although some of the graffitti on the pub walls wasn't welcoming. It's just that we were strangers, you see. We were guilty of an invasion of territory I suppose - even in England - and they seemed to feel uneasy, exactly as some ethnic English might feel if the situation was reversed. Question is, were the ethnic Indians, in being noticeably reserved, reacting naturally to our invasion of "their" territory, would they always be quiet with any strangers in their presence or would you walk in there and suggest some were "Pig shit ignorant scum", cos their unengaging reaction might, just might, have been entirely due to the fact that our skin was a different colour from theirs?. Were that the case, should we even consider "getting rid of em" to make integration easier or is that just for your "neo-Nazi thugs" (which would be ironic). I doubt it because, if you're the person I think you are, you've changed your handle perhaps to disguise the fact that you're a frequent anti-racist activist but one who consistently highlights white perceived racism or reaction while conveniently ignoring the abundant instances racism or retaliatory reaction from the opposite direction. My apologies if I'm wrong about that but in conclusion it it's not easy to judge people's actions, or to put labels on them or to find working solutions to complex problems. Respect is the key, of course, but respect is a two-way door and, at times, sadly, that doors seem to be locked from both sides.
Thracian Posted 15 December 2005 Posted 15 December 2005 Racism on Aussie beaches (and elsewhere) is a problem. But how about those people that killed a randomly-selected victim in the course of an unprovoked "happy slapping" session? My point is: violence is a strange thing in any of its incarnations... Sounds just like some of the charity women and anti-War civilians kidnapped and executed or threatened with execution by supposedly God-fearing extremists in Iraq. I genuinely despair of mankind. I often wonder if women would make a better job of Governing - but then I think of people like Patricia Hewitt (the symbol of fairness) and the thouight disappears.
Gamesmaster Posted 15 December 2005 Posted 15 December 2005 thracian, you have opened my eyes to a new understanding and thought. it was the bit about watching city off melton rd that did so. i imagined you entering into the kind of scenario whereby the ethnic minority abused is used and abused by the political class to fullfill their pockets, and claim their status in our society as righteous. you did go on a bit tho here are some links to a more media friendly qualification of whats happening in aussie land. its not just the aussies who are racist thugs the second story tells of a church being arsoned and another being attacked by muslims
natas Posted 15 December 2005 Posted 15 December 2005 Here's somthing I wrote earlier regarding this crap- Basically here you have two groups of people who are as just as stupid and idiotic as the other. First of all, you have the white bogan (Aussie lingo for redneck pretty much) and the Lebanese gangs who are basically scum. To start with 2 lifesavers were beaten by a group of these Lebanese gang members at the beach for no real reason and so the locals (this region is refered to as the shire) who have had to deal with a fair few and increasing amount of attacks over the last few years from these Lebanese gangs, organised a kind of soildarity rally over the weekend. This was pretty much highjacked by white supremacists and drunken youths and rednecks, add to this the fact the local surfie gang (the Maroubra Boys-otherwise known as the Bra Boys, who are quite big) weren't going to take other gangs intruding on 'their' beach or turf if you like, and so there was obviously going to be trouble. It should also be mentioned that The Shire is an almostly completely anglo area so the locals aren't really used to other people of different ethnicity, and the locals are a bit odd, who are very protective of their area and tend to think of themselves as removed from other Sydneysiders and I tend to agree with that notion. The random attacks that occured on Sunday were quite savage and in most cases were carried out on completely innoncent people and have been rightly condemed. On the following couple of nights there has been reprisals from hundreds of these Lebanese gang members on property of locals (smashed car windows and the like) and attacks on innocents walking around outside by themselves. Finally, the media has had a large bit to play in this drama by irresponsibly showing the text message of some fools who in their messages had referred to last Sunday as a 'Leb bashing' revenge day which meant white supremicists from outside the local area who hadn't known about it, came down to make it a much larger and rowdier crowd.
Gamesmaster Posted 15 December 2005 Posted 15 December 2005 This was pretty much highjacked by white supremacists The random attacks that occured on Sunday were quite savage and in most cases were carried out on completely innoncent people and have been rightly condemed. have you got proof that white supremists are defending themselves? have you got proof that the random attacks were carried out on innocent people?
natas Posted 15 December 2005 Posted 15 December 2005 What? I wasn't saying the white supremacists were defending themselves, I mean they were the ones carrying out the unprovoked attacks on anyone of Middle Eastern appearance. For instance they attacked 2 blokes who only just managed to escape in their cars(while having their windows smashed), and then the next day on the news, they talked to the two guys and they were Bangladeshi exchange students. The reprisals by the Lebanese gangs have included just smashing up every car in some of the streets in Cronulla and in one case just asking one bloke what nationality he was, then beating the crap out of him when he said Australian. I'll just make it clear that i'm not on either ones side here, as a find both of them equally stupid and I find it sad that these actions of a few are tarnishing the name of my country.
john_lcfc Posted 15 December 2005 Author Posted 15 December 2005 theyll be a bomb down there soon cos of this business i tink
TrickyTrev Posted 15 December 2005 Posted 15 December 2005 But perhaps you should first live in the south east to see how native English lives and towns have been changed and made uncomfortable by the teaming masses of asylum seekers. Try and imagine something similar happened in the place where you live I live in Luton. Not only in the South East but also one of the most ethnically diverse towns int he country. My school is about 50% white, 50% Asian. There is racial tension in the town. In my experience it comes through laziness of thought and cheap targeting. It is usually the preserve of the middle aged and those few offsrping that are idiotic enough to reciet their parents dogma without thought. I suppose you think this is a peculiarly white thing too No. I'm sur eyou are aware of the atrocities of Rwanda. One group of b lack people commited genocide against another when the only essential difference between the two groups was the size of their noses. Both groups believed they had a right to the land and that it was their country. 1/3 of the tootsie population were killed. Put simply populations are exactly the same as wildlife in that they live and breed where they feel comfortable, where there is shelter, opportunity to work and where they have allies and feel safe. Animals are different species competing against each other. Balck people and white people are both human beings. But of course, if you are adamant in believing that ANYONE who advocates caution and thought because they despair the consequences of mass immigration, that anyone who detests the resulting positive discrimination as demeaning to everyone because of all the endless difficulties these things cause is, by definition, racist and hates coloured skins, then there's probably no point trying to change your mind, wrong or not. If youw ant to have a debate on the positives and negatives of immigration then fine. But when these people wonder the streets randomly beating people purely because of their skin I will accue them of being racist thugs. Is that okay? Have you even read the article, its horroific. Our policies - linked to our disgraceful capitulation to Europe - have allowed this tide to swamp our system in the name of humanity but to the now irreversible cost to our way of life and to the sense of wellbeing previously felt by virtually everyone who lived here There was me thinking that our longest period of sustained net migration correlated with a longest period of low unemployment, rising wages, low inflation and economic growth. If people don't feel happy in England right now then they never will. But as the Cities change their ethnic face completely (and figures confirm as much), will the suburban housing developments become the Native English "reservations", increasingly populated by the middle aged and older populations because the young native folk have flown, unable to get work here, unable to feel valuable or relevent, unable to feel they have a fair chance and unable to find cheap accommodation in a part of town where they feel safe and comfortable. Emmirgation and Unemployment are at their lowestlevels for 50 years. Think before you rant. Ironically my own son is probably aiming for Sydney, Australia. Are you really basing your arguement on the evidence of one individual. Only when the natural immigration/emigration patterns stabilise might they finally return but only if they first survive in a foreign land and only if there is a recognisable and welcoming "homeland" to return to.Here is a bit of basic economics for you. When our country stops being an attractive country to live in, high unemployment, poorer standard of living e.t.c, and only then will we stop having net migration. Anyone wishing to come back into the country will be faced with a less attractive island than the one they left. So if your comments on this thread were a veiled attack suggesting I might be anti-foreigner, I might ask why would that be, seeing as my own son will likely be a foreigner in the country of his married life?. And he will be married to a foreigner as my oldest son is too. You are very defencive. I accused you of being stupid for trying to justify the actions of the Australian ne-nazi thugs that the thread is about. I have since come to the conclusion your views on immigration are pretty badly informed, but I don't think you are anti-foreigner or a racist. ethnic Indians, in being noticeably reserved, reacting naturally to our invasion of "their" territory, would they always be quiet with any strangers in their presence or would you walk in there and suggest some were "Pig shit ignorant scum", cos their unengaging reaction might, just might, have been entirely due to the fact that our skin was a different colour from theirs?. There are local Asian areas in luton and some of them can be unwelcoming to white "visitors." It frustrates me and angers me every bit as much as when white peopel give the same reaction to other races. I would add that I have walked into many a "predominantly white pubs" and given firmiliar looks because I am not a local. Again I find this rude and unessaccary. I don't see why we should spread this behaviour to our border control. Were that the case, should we even consider "getting rid of em" to make integration easier or is that just for your "neo-Nazi thugs" (which would be ironic). No I believe in education and never letting latent prejudice or ignorance going unchallanged. Sometimes I come across as rude and confrontational because of it. I really don't mean to. you're a frequent anti-racist activist but one who consistently highlights white perceived racism or reaction while conveniently ignoring the abundant instances racism or retaliatory reaction from the opposite direction. White on ethnic minority racism is highlighted more because racism is about power. There is fairly and abhorent Western history of white opression of both asians and blacks. This does not mean that I find racism against whites any less abhorent. Respect is the key, of course, but respect is a two-way door and, at times, sadly, that doors seem to be locked from both sides On that I cna finally agree with you.
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